Questions About Football Strategies, Formations, Schemes, ETC

[Brownfan80]

When I was working on my doodle of the Moss drop and catch, I realized that I didn't know what all the routes in football were actually named.

I knew what most of them look like, but not what their names are..

And some of the names that I do know confuse me. What is the difference between a 'comeback' and a 'dig'?

How about a thread devoted to diagrams of American Football routes?

For instance, what is the route called that Randy ran right before the historic TD?

I've seen it in Madden, but don't know its name.

Let's get some images up so that anyone that ever needs a learnin' can get one from diagrams. Hopefully yours are better than my doodle:

[Brady's Bunch]

Isn't the first one a "Post" and the second one a "Go" route?

[Brownfan80]

Originally posted by Bradys Bunch on 01-04-2008 at 09:05 AM
Isn't the first one a "Post" and the second one a "Go" route?

I knew the Go, but Post does sound familiar. See why we need a thread with diagrams??

In Madden I just call whatever play and lock in on one WR. I'd be a bad real-life QB. Progressions? We don't need no stinkin' progressions.

[Michigan Dave]

A lot of it depends on the offense. A curl is typically a comeback with a wider stance. Say the defense is playing you outside, you curl back and the QB can throw inside. It's essentially a wider break, like a fish hook. A dig would be a route where the defense is playing you tight at the line, you run straight for X yards, and make a hard break and on the turn the ball is released. Almost straight back. Again, those were our routes at UM. A lot of time, the QB and WR are expected to be on the same page and adjust the route based on the coverage at the line. If I have a curl called for you, and they're playing you tight, or there appears to be a backer dropping into a short inside zone, I would probably expect you to recognize this and run a dig instead and I'd throw to your outside number.

Routes are different depending on the coach's passing tree. A lot of times players just go by number and not name. There are option routes and WR reads that just expect good communication between QB and WR and a lot of trust. As a QB, I always hated people riding my ass for throws to nowhere when a WR didn't make the right read on an option. A lot of your pick sixes are option ins where the QB read one thing and the WR the other.

[Michigan Dave]

This is an example of a basic passing tree, if you have never seen one. This is something you would see on the HS level.

[Michigan Dave]

brownfan, a post is run in toward the middle of the field. It would be #8 on the tree above. A flag is a similar route run outside, and is #7. On a basic passing tree even numbers are routes run inside and odds outside. Flag is also called a corner, post/corner (see the inside move and then outside release?) etc.

[Brownfan80]

Originally posted by Michigan Dave on 01-04-2008 at 09:15 AM
This is an example of a basic passing tree, if you have never seen one. This is something you would see on the HS level.

Nope, never seen that. I was a basketball guy in HS.

So what do all the numbers mean?

[AllWorldTE]

Originally posted by Brownfan80 on 01-04-2008 at 09:04 AM
, I realized that I didn't know what all the routes in football were actually named.

I knew what most of them look like, but not what their names are..
[/i]

The problem is that the same route can have many different names. Some coaches call a vertical route that break towards the sideline at the pylon a Corner Route and others call it a Flag (the pylons used to be flags). The same types of routes can be run many different ways as well. Many systems name their routes with numbers because they use a passing tree for learning and play calling purposes. The tree looks like a tree with the branches being the routes coming off the stem (trunk). The WR, TE and RBs would have different route trees.

Moss ran what most offenses call a 9 route which is a deep route down the side-line. It can be called a Go, a Streak, a Jet and probably many other things.

A dig is a deep in route that crosses the field. They can be run in different ways.

A comeback is a deep vertical route that breaks back towards the sideline at about a 45 degree angle.

      Dig                                       Comeback

           .   .   .   .   .                                        .
        .                                                           .  .
      .                                                             .     .
      .                                                             .
      .                                                             .
      .                                                             .

EDIT: Sorry, I was typing while Dave was posting and covered the same ground. It looks like Michigan uses the term "Dig" differently than I do though which is very common in football.

I like your tree spread out that way Dave.

[Brownfan80]

Originally posted by Michigan Dave on 01-04-2008 at 09:18 AM
brownfan, a post is run in toward the middle of the field. It would be #8 on the tree above. A flag is a similar route run outside, and is #7. On a basic passing tree even numbers are routes run inside and odds outside. Flag is also called a corner, post/corner (see the inside move and then outside release?) etc.

So the Flag-Corner-Post/Corner is more or less what Moss ran on the failed long ball before the Historic TD?

[Michigan Dave]

Originally posted by Brownfan80 on 01-04-2008 at 09:21 AM
So the Flag-Corner-Post/Corner is more or less what Moss ran on the failed long ball before the Historic TD?

It's tough to tell unless I have the wide footage. It looks like the post-corner was the route from memory, but it was probably an option. Smart WRs will be able to make their own reads and I'm sure he would've gone with a post had the defense been different.

[Brownfan80]

Originally posted by Michigan Dave on 01-04-2008 at 09:26 AM
It's tough to tell unless I have the wide footage. It looks like the post-corner was the route from memory, but it was probably an option. Smart WRs will be able to make their own reads and I'm sure he would've gone with a post had the defense been different.

Yeah he made the right choice if it was an option. Tommy just underthrew him by about 6 yards or so.

An 'option' route is where a WR can change his route depending on the defense, correct?

So he might run a post or a corner, or a 'comeback' or some such other variety of routes depending on the defenses alignment? And those changes are made during the route, correct, not just pre-snap?

[AllWorldTE]

Originally posted by Michigan Dave on 01-04-2008 at 09:26 AM
It's tough to tell unless I have the wide footage. It looks like the post-corner was the route from memory, but it was probably an option. Smart WRs will be able to make their own reads and I'm sure he would've gone with a post had the defense been different.

The TD catch looked like a 9 route all the way to me. On the incomplete deep pass, Randy ran the route down the EDIT: inside the numbers so I'm sure he had a sight adjustment built in and he actually did have to make a major adjustment after T. Brady threw it into the void away from the Safety (who was way out of position) towards the sideline. I haven't re-watched the fourth quarter yet so I'm going off of memory (always risky).

[Michigan Dave]

Originally posted by Brownfan80 on 01-04-2008 at 09:19 AM
Nope, never seen that. I was a basketball guy in HS.

So what do all the numbers mean?

Numbers are just the route names. When you're teaching football, WRs learn their routes by number. Typically each position has a part of the play they are listening for, and the QB has to know and coordinate each one. For example, a play like "Z to Trips RT 42 Dive Chili 860" would be a basic play-action. "Z to trips RT" gives my formation. In this case it's singleback with 2 WRs on the right. "Z to" means I'm motioning my Z receiver from the left to right prior to the snap, creating a "Trips RT" formation (3WR.) 42 dive is the RB instruction, here it would be a play-action and he would be running to the 2 hole on the inside of the right guard's shoulder. "Chili" is the protection the linemen listen to, it was a basic protection at Michigan. "860" instructs the receivers, and if you use the passing tree above, my X is running a post, my Y is running a comeback and my Z a quick hitch and I would throw outside to him.

Simplified, but that's what the numbers mean.

[Michigan Dave]

Originally posted by AllWorldTE on 01-04-2008 at 09:31 AM
The TD catch looked like a 9 route all the way to me. On the incomplete deep pass, Randy ran the route down the hash so I'm sure he had a sight adjustment built in and he actually did have to make a major adjustment to the went T. Brady threw it into the void away from the Safety (who was way out of position). I haven't re-watched the fourth quarter yet so I'm going off of memory (always risky).

Yeah, you're 100% on the TD. He ran real fast, real straight. There will always be an adjustment for the ball.

[Brownfan80]

Originally posted by Michigan Dave on 01-04-2008 at 09:32 AM
Numbers are just the route names. When you're teaching football, WRs learn their routes by number. Typically each position has a part of the play they are listening for, and the QB has to know and coordinate each one. For example, a play like "Z to Trips RT 42 Dive Chili 860" would be a basic play-action. "Z to trips RT" gives my formation. In this case it's singleback with 2 WRs on the right. "Z to" means I'm motioning my Z receiver from the left to right prior to the snap, creating a "Trips RT" formation (3WR.) 42 dive is the RB instruction, here it would be a play-action and he would be running to the 2 hole on the inside of the right guard's shoulder. "Chili" is the protection the linemen listen to, it was a basic protection at Michigan. "860" instructs the receivers, and if you use the passing tree above, my X is running a post, my Y is running a comeback and my Z a quick hitch and I would throw outside to him.

Simplified, but that's what the numbers mean.

Very interesting stuff. I guess that gives a little more insight into why some new players have trouble with terminology or the play-book in a new system.

A lot of information with not a lot of terminology to convey it.