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Old 02-13-2020, 10:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post


2010: Devin McCourty
2011: Nate Solder
2012: Chandler Jones, D'onta Hightower
2013: No pick (traded to Minnesota)
2016: No pick (lost due to Deflategate)
2017: No pick (traded to the Saints)
2018: Isaiah Wynn, Sony Michel
2019: Harry

McCourty already got a second contract and has been a key player in the secondary his whole career.

Solder played very well while here and the NYG tossed stupid money at him, so he was clearly thought to be good enough for that contract, simply that BB wasn't going to match it.

Chandler Jones was traded because BB didn't think he would match what he'd get in FA, and he did get his second contract. Also he was voted second as DPOY in 2019, I'd say that make him pretty good.

What did we get for the 2013 trade?

#52, Jamie Collins
#83, Logan Ryan
#91, Duron Harmon

All three got their second contracts, and all three have contributed significantly here and on other teams (Collins, Ryan)

The 2017 trade got them Brandon Cooks. They kept him for one year, where he produced quite well and then traded him for the pick that became Wynn.

Wynn has had injury issues but still has contributed when there. It's too soon to say if he's a bust, a star, or something in between.

The job Michel did in the playoffs as a rookie is a major reason we won our 6th SB trophy. This year's performance isn't necessarily his fault due to the injuries at FB and OL and virtually no TE's. Let's see how he does next year when hopefully those issues will be addressed.

So that's 7 out of 10 years where either a 1st round pick was pretty damn good, we traded it and got good value in return, or the NFL took it away for bullshit reasons.

One year is too early to tell (Harry)

Only two years can be said to be complete "misses" Dominique Easley in 2014 and Malcolm Brown in 2015.

So how the frack can you say we "missed out on every 1st round pick" over the last 10 years?
Iíd say youíve proved my point. Solder has proved he isnít worth starting money, Sony ran great when he had a line opening up truck sized holes, but canít get a thing on his own, chandler jones was smoking spice and wandered into a police station. The night before a playoff game. Iím pretty sure thatís why heís gone. The line improved when Wynn came back, but to say heís gonna be a steady LT for the next five years is a major stretch. Iím all for trading down. Always. But those guys werenít first round picks. Looking back, I donít see many standout starters that have been had in the first. Actually I donít see any other than McCourty and he was a decade ago. Teams canít be this bad in the draft for this long without things catching up. Brady covered things for a long time. Gilmore was a great free agent signing, but bad draft class after bad draft class will catch up to a team. These guys arenít getting redshirted. They just canít make it on the field.
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:43 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by rivshark86 View Post
Iíd say youíve proved my point. Solder has proved he isnít worth starting money, Sony ran great when he had a line opening up truck sized holes, but canít get a thing on his own, chandler jones was smoking spice and wandered into a police station. The night before a playoff game. Iím pretty sure thatís why heís gone. The line improved when Wynn came back, but to say heís gonna be a steady LT for the next five years is a major stretch. Iím all for trading down. Always. But those guys werenít first round picks. Looking back, I donít see many standout starters that have been had in the first. Actually I donít see any other than McCourty and he was a decade ago. Teams canít be this bad in the draft for this long without things catching up. Brady covered things for a long time. Gilmore was a great free agent signing, but bad draft class after bad draft class will catch up to a team. These guys arenít getting redshirted. They just canít make it on the field.
This is a bit lame. They all made it on the field except Easley.

You say Jones wasn't a good pick?????? He layed outstanding for his time here, was traded for a what? second round pick, and was DPOY? How is a DPOY a bust???????

Saying they blew their 2013 pick because they only got Jamie Collins and Logan Ryan with it?????

and Wells approve your logic.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:08 AM   #18
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Youíre making the point of it being Krafts decision. Iím looking at it as Bill potentially slamming the table and storming off to the Giants.
Joe Judge beat him to it...

BB is more important than Brady is to this team...and yes, Brady is the GOAT.
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Old 02-14-2020, 07:04 AM   #19
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This is a bit lame. They all made it on the field except Easley.

You say Jones wasn't a good pick?????? He layed outstanding for his time here, was traded for a what? second round pick, and was DPOY? How is a DPOY a bust???????

Saying they blew their 2013 pick because they only got Jamie Collins and Logan Ryan with it?????

and Wells approve your logic.
I’m saying that jones was smoking spice the day before a playoff game and was hallucinating so badly he turned himself into a police station then got traded. Thus he’s not on the roster contributing like Hightower still is.
Yeah not every pick has been a bust. I’m not saying that. I’m saying that generally it’s been underwhelming under achieving draft class after another for ten years. There’s a reason only three guys from the team made the pro bowl.
And yes there are a ton of guys who don’t or barely make it on the field. This season it was Harris and Harry. Last year it was duke Dawson they took him in the second. Jeez let’s look at all the failed second round picks of the last decade. The blown picks on safeties corners and WRs.
From the 17 draft rivers has missed two of three seasons, and Garcia is playing for the jets. Those were the top two picks in the third.
The year before 2016 the only guys who stuck were Thuney and Karras. Decent players, thuney has been good, but no they alone don’t make a good draft class.
2015 - malcome brown isn’t here, Richards was another wasted second round pick, Grissom wasn’t anything. Flowers was a good pick, ok we found one.
2014- Easley, bust, Jimmy G wasted second round pick, and in my opinion a good game manager who is prone to injury. White was a great pick. But hardly a great draft class.
Jamie Collins flashes but he’s hardly consistent. The past drafts have produced very few conerstones for the team to build around.
It goes on and on and on.......... if Brady leaves and Belichick and whoever else is making decisions has another five years of drafting like this then the patriots are going to be bottom feeders in the AFC east.

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Old 02-14-2020, 07:23 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivshark86 View Post
Iím saying that jones was smoking spice the day before a playoff game and was hallucinating so badly he turned himself into a police station then got traded. Thus heís not on the roster contributing like Hightower still is.
Yeah not every pick has been a bust. Iím not saying that. Iím saying that generally itís been underwhelming under achieving draft class after another for ten years. Thereís a reason only three guys from the team made the pro bowl.
And yes there are a ton of guys who donít or barely make it on the field. This season it was Harris and Harry. Last year it was duke Dawson they took him in the second. Jeez letís look at all the failed second round picks of the last decade. The blown picks on safeties corners and WRs.
From the 17 draft rivers has missed two of three seasons, and Garcia is playing for the jets. Those were the top two picks in the third.
The year before 2016 the only guys who stuck were Thuney and Karras. Decent players, thuney has been good, but no they alone donít make a good draft class.
2015 - malcome brown isnít here, Richards was another wasted second round pick, Grissom wasnít anything. Flowers was a good pick, ok we found one.
2014- Easley, bust, Jimmy G wasted second round pick, and in my opinion a good game manager who is prone to injury. White was a great pick. But hardly a great draft class.
Jamie Collins flashes but heís hardly consistent. The past drafts have produced very few conerstones for the team to build around.
It goes on and on and on.......... if Brady leaves and Belichick and whoever else is making decisions has another five years of drafting like this then the patriots are going to be bottom feeders in the AFC east.
Read an article during the season that the Pats are near the top in the league in homegrown players.

If this is the case, your arguments don't pass muster.

The fact that you think Belichick is a problem for this organization almost invalidates and other opinions you have on this team.
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Old 02-14-2020, 07:45 AM   #21
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I don’t think BB is a problem, but I do think his best days have been behind him for years, and his ego has gotten big enough that it’s having a negative impact on his personnel decisions. At a certain point you need athletes. He’s got 50 years of knowledge and I’m not saying he’s not a great coach. I do think over the past ten years Brady has had a lot more to do with this team’s success.

I didn’t read that article but when you look at the individual picks from the past ten drafts and it’s clear that at best they have been average.

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Old 02-14-2020, 09:52 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by rivshark86 View Post
I donít think BB is a problem, but I do think his best days have been behind him for years, and his ego has gotten big enough that itís having a negative impact on his personnel decisions. At a certain point you need athletes. Heís got 50 years of knowledge and Iím not saying heís not a great coach. I do think over the past ten years Brady has had a lot more to do with this teamís success.

I didnít read that article but when you look at the individual picks from the past ten drafts and itís clear that at best they have been average.
2 picks stolen and most of the rest between 30-32. How great would ANYONE do?
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:31 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevss454 View Post
Yep. I liked Deebo an awful lot for the Pats last year. I had him penciled in to take over for Edelman in a year but I thought he could take over for Hogan pretty quickly.
Sometimes I wonder how many guys we've skipped over through the years because BB figured that they wouldn't be able to process our offense or wouldn't fit in otherwise.

Far as Deebo goes, yes, he was very outgoing during the draft process and looked like he might have some Diva potential, although in an upbeat sort of way, so who knows?

All I know is that he was likely SF's offensive MVP in the first half of that Super Bowl and if they targeted him more in the 2nd half then maybe the result might've been different. He was giving KC all kinds of problems and then disappeared.

His ability to run through tackles is phenomenal given his size.

FWIW, the 2nd round WRs last year did pretty well:

36. Deebo Samuel
51. A.J. Brown
56. Mecole Hardman
57. J. J. Arcega-Whiteside
59. Parris Campbell
62. Andy Isabella
64. D.K. Metcalf
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Old 02-14-2020, 11:06 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by rivshark86 View Post
Iím saying that jones was smoking spice the day before a playoff game and was hallucinating so badly he turned himself into a police station then got traded.
He was traded because he was going to demand a metric shit ton of $...THAT is the reason why he was traded.

---------- Post added at 09:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rivshark86 View Post
I donít think BB is a problem, but I do think his best days have been behind him for years, and his ego has gotten big enough that itís having a negative impact on his personnel decisions. At a certain point you need athletes. Heís got 50 years of knowledge and Iím not saying heís not a great coach. I do think over the past ten years Brady has had a lot more to do with this teamís success.

I didnít read that article but when you look at the individual picks from the past ten drafts and itís clear that at best they have been average.
BB is the reason why Babooshka has 6 rings...dumb dumb.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:30 PM   #25
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Old 02-16-2020, 10:39 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawg73 View Post
Sometimes I wonder how many guys we've skipped over through the years because BB figured that they wouldn't be able to process our offense or wouldn't fit in otherwise.

Far as Deebo goes, yes, he was very outgoing during the draft process and looked like he might have some Diva potential, although in an upbeat sort of way, so who knows?

All I know is that he was likely SF's offensive MVP in the first half of that Super Bowl and if they targeted him more in the 2nd half then maybe the result might've been different. He was giving KC all kinds of problems and then disappeared.

His ability to run through tackles is phenomenal given his size.

FWIW, the 2nd round WRs last year did pretty well:

36. Deebo Samuel
51. A.J. Brown
56. Mecole Hardman
57. J. J. Arcega-Whiteside
59. Parris Campbell
62. Andy Isabella
64. D.K. Metcalf

There are some day 2 players I'm latching on to who have some serious potential this year, too.


Brandon Aiyuk. 6', 205. ASU. Aiyuk had just less than 1200 yds and 8 TDs in 2019 with a freshman as his QB. 18.3 ypc. He's fast and gets separation easily on crossers, posts, corners and go routes. Twitchy+++. Someone to consider seriously to alter coverages. X, Y or Z + Wildcat RB. My NFL Comp...Michael Gallup. PFF's comp...Cordarelle Patterson (bc of his RB threat but with better hands than CP). Walter Football's comp...Sammy Watkins (but faster than Watkins).

Jalen Reagor. 5'10.5", 195, TCU. This kid is super fast, super strong and super dangerous with the football in his hands. He demands over the top help in coverage. He may not break the combine 40 yd record but he'll come close.

KJ Hamler, 5'9", 185, PS.
and a couple more.
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Old 02-16-2020, 10:55 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Schrute View Post
2 picks stolen and most of the rest between 30-32. How great would ANYONE do?

You're right about the lost round 1 picks but rounds 2 & 3 since 2013 have also been really bad for replenishing the team.

It's eyeopening to view it like this.


https://twitter.com/Dale07149987/sta...90582122459136
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Old 02-16-2020, 12:39 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by chevss454 View Post
You're right about the lost round 1 picks but rounds 2 & 3 since 2013 have also been really bad for replenishing the team.

It's eyeopening to view it like this.


https://twitter.com/Dale07149987/sta...90582122459136
Agree.

Hopefully the extra time this year pays off.
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Old 02-16-2020, 05:49 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big/Sky/Fly View Post
He was traded because he was going to demand a metric shit ton of $...THAT is the reason why he was traded.

---------- Post added at 09:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 AM ----------



BB is the reason why Babooshka has 6 rings...dumb dumb.
I would say Players had a bit to do with that too. As far as trading Jones, dont mind the trade, what we got for him was horrible, that seems to be normal here lately though.
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