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View Poll Results: Do you trust Elixir Guerrero?
Yes, with all my heart 4 13.33%
No, he's a bad man Boss 9 30.00%
not sure but Something stinks in the septic tank 13 43.33%
Thomas is Alex, Elixir is Thomas144 and Spaghetti Monster controls him 6 20.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-13-2018, 10:31 AM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Yeah there is that.

It seems, the more "connected" we've become the more isolated we start to feel. Opiates are a drug of dispair. They're painkillers in every sense of the word. They treat physical pain, but they also suppress emotional pain.

Why are suicide rates skyrocketting? Why are more and more people choosing to spend their days zoning out on opiates. Why are rates of depression through the roof?

There's no single smoking gun answer (there rarely is) but human beings are social animals. The worst thing you can do to us is isolate us from other people. That's why even in prison, surrounded by rapists and murderers, solitary is considered one of the harshest punishments you can hand out.

More and more the interactions we have with other humans are done through screens. We're interacting with each other but we're not connecting with each other. That breeds lonliness and dispair.

And opiates take that away. Temporarily at least.
It can be as simple as people are now loners, remotely working from home in isolation.

Followed up with getting on-line and seeing others pretending to be living the life you want.

Next playing on-line games with someone in Guam and not making any sense to each other based on a language barrier.

you wake up and realize if I didn't go get a coffee every day I could go weeks without talking to a person face to face.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:59 AM   #182
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TB12 and Elixir Guerrero - how comfortable are you with his honesty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Schrute View Post
Just justify to me why when there is such a pandemic spread of opioid addiction your friends and relatives are so prone to keep prescribing, add jet fuel to the problem.



You do acknowledge there is a massive prescription opioid problem in this country I presume?


You still havenít answered the question.
Whereís the evidence?

And in case this is needed, post hoc propter hoc fallacy.


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Old 06-13-2018, 12:43 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by PatsFan09 View Post
You still havenít answered the question.
Whereís the evidence?

And in case this is needed, post hoc propter hoc fallacy.


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I donít have evidence.

I donít have access to their legit books or fake books.

But knowing how ruthlessly addictive the products are and how bad the epidemic is why do they not only continue to prescribe but in my case twice and mikies multiple times encourage/push? Even in a situation like mikies where his wife wouldíve suffered major consequences?
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:22 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Schrute View Post
Yeah, this is a pretty big one here chev.

The stories are COUNTLESS of people who had completely normal lives, get a minor injury or surgery or back pain, and get a script or 2 of Oxy. Once the script runs out and the Dr wonít prescribe they do some digging, maybe buy some on the street, and then find heroin.


The family is then deciding between coffin or cremation.

My sister is a nurse pretty high up the food chain for a prominent substance abuse facility on the South Shore. I donít know if statistics still hold but for quite a long time SE MA was the heroin overdose/addiction capital of the US. Not some slum urban blight metro crap hole youíd say yeah that figures, Boston South including picturesque Cape Cod and the Islands.

Just a pure coincidence this same area happens to have some of the best medical facilities and a countless number of practices and offices. People nation wide and well to do in other countries come to this neck of the wood for treatment.

The proliferation of product is OBSCENE. The problems are known by laypeople. And yet the dispensaryís continue to pump them out.

If they knew the ďtreatmentĒ caused cancer would they continue to pump them out?

They DO KNOW the ďsolutionĒ is the expressway to addiction. Why do they continue to support the problem?


The government and big pharma are the lead culprits in the problem. Quite simply there should be mandates in place for how much product is allowed to be produced.

.

Hey Dwight, you're blaming the wrong people if you're blaming doctors. Go ask your sister if it's doctors getting these young people addicted or if it's the drug seller on the street. I gave you 4 links to where the drugs come from for the street but you still want to blame doctors. Bull shit.



If your sister is so high on the food chain of substance abuse facilities, ask her why these licensed facilities are still feeding methadone to addicts for years and years instead of weaning them off the drug slowly as they are mandated to do. I know why and I have first hand knowledge about it. It's guaranteed government $$$$$ and it's a goldmine for these substance abuse facilities.



I already answered why physicians write narcotic prescriptions - opioids control pain like NO OTHER DRUG available. Plain and simple. Doctors know how long it takes for the most sensitive of us to become addicted. Again, it's risk vs reward. For severe pain, no matter what kind, nothing takes the place of opioids. I'm not saying mistakes aren't made by doctors who don't read patient histories closely enough. That happens but it's not as often as you make it out to be. Read some of those links I gave you. Educate yourself bc you sound ignorant on the subject.
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:37 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevss454 View Post
Hey Dwight, you're blaming the wrong people if you're blaming doctors. Go ask your sister if it's doctors getting these young people addicted or if it's the drug seller on the street. I gave you 4 links to where the drugs come from for the street but you still want to blame doctors. Bull shit.



If your sister is so high on the food chain of substance abuse facilities, ask her why these licensed facilities are still feeding methadone to addicts for years and years instead of weaning them off the drug slowly as they are mandated to do. I know why and I have first hand knowledge about it. It's guaranteed government $$$$$ and it's a goldmine for these substance abuse facilities.



I already answered why physicians write narcotic prescriptions - opioids control pain like NO OTHER DRUG available. Plain and simple. Doctors know how long it takes for the most sensitive of us to become addicted. Again, it's risk vs reward. For severe pain, no matter what kind, nothing takes the place of opioids. I'm not saying mistakes aren't made by doctors who don't read patient histories closely enough. That happens but it's not as often as you make it out to be. Read some of those links I gave you. Educate yourself bc you sound ignorant on the subject.
No shit it ends up from the street. And usually migrated to heroin.
Because the price of Oxy becomes unbearable but the monkey gets too big to stop. So itís on to cheaper, stronger street heroin coupled with the even more dangerous fentonol.

But the introduction comes from the all too willing Drs.

Thereís other alternatives.

Most patients are far too trusting and just go with whatís recommended.

The bottom line is thereís a MASSIVE problem. There are many guilty parties. To let one sect off because you have a friend or relative is ridiculous imo.

And to have regular back and forth discussion with different thoughts and takes was what I thought an awesome internet forum was precisely existent for, not to put on you teaching shoes and Mr Rogers sweater and come off like some pretentious prick.

Iím out.
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:46 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevss454 View Post
My mom, dad, a brother and 2 sisters are all physicians in private practice who have never been offered a kickback. There are a lot of problems with Big Pharma but I can't agree with you on this one, BSF. It's unethical for a physician to accept a kickback from a drug company and doing so will get a physician's license to practice revoked.

Those of you who take 800 mg of acetaminophen at a time might want to brush up on the side effects of the drug. I would never. Tylenol is not the innocent drug many think it to be. The safest course would be to start with a low dose (200 mg) and titrate upward from there until it works for you.

All drugs have an ugly side; the doctor's responsibility is to weigh the good against the bad to get the desired effect.

Narcotics control pain better than any other known drug with the fewest side effects OTHER THAN addiction. That's why doctors script them. They work. It's irresponsible to blame ethical doctors for getting people addicted. They are careful about the amount of drug prescribed ALWAYS.

Narcotics leak into the wrong hands a lot of different ways & while there are plenty of unethical doctors who write too many scripts too easily, they can't possibly fulfill the huge demand.

Drug diversion is huge business for the underworld. It's the drug wholesalers/distributors/pharmacies who should get the blame for the narcotics problem we have. If you want to know how the opioid epidemic got so out of control, itís hard to do better than this statistic: Between 2006 and 2016, out-of-state drug companies shipped nearly 21 million opioid painkillers to two pharmacies in Williamson, West Virginia, population 2,900. That comes from a report by Eric Eyre at the Charleston Gazette-Mail, citing a new congressional investigation into massive shipments of the opioid painkillers oxycodone and hydrocodone in West Virginia by drug wholesalers Miami-Luken and H.D. Smith. In addition, the small town of Kermit, WVirginia has a population of 392, but a single pharmacy there received 9 million hydrocodone pills over two years from out-of-state drug companies. Now you can see where the narcotics come from.


Blaming doctors for the narcotics problem is just plain WRONG.



The opioid epidemic: America's deadliest drug overdose crisis

View all 197 stories
The blame goes way beyond the bad doctors...I agree.

The "war on drugs" is a vast swath.

America is in Afghanistan for a reason...
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:55 PM   #187
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https://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist....rug-kickbacks/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2...cal-companies/

https://clark.com/insurance/doctor-b...certain-drugs/

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and...g-your-doctor/

https://www.propublica.org/article/d...and-name-drugs

https://www.whistleblowerattorneys.c...-pharma-greed/

...and a bazillion more if you want.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:01 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Schrute View Post
No shit it ends up from the street. And usually migrated to heroin.
Because the price of Oxy becomes unbearable but the monkey gets too big to stop. So itís on to cheaper, stronger street heroin coupled with the even more dangerous fentonol.

But the introduction comes from the all too willing Drs.

Thereís other alternatives.

Most patients are far too trusting and just go with whatís recommended.

The bottom line is thereís a MASSIVE problem. There are many guilty parties. To let one sect off because you have a friend or relative is ridiculous imo.

And to have regular back and forth discussion with different thoughts and takes was what I thought an awesome internet forum was precisely existent for, not to put on you teaching shoes and Mr Rogers sweater and come off like some pretentious prick.

Iím out.
There are morally corrupt doctors out there. But, you're right that big pharma corporations are the much bigger problem.

Big pharma is a much bigger threat to us than guns ever will be.

The whole system sucks. It will never be fixed either.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:15 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
I mean, I'm not totalling blaming doctors, but if you write a bunch of prescriptions for very addictive drugs you can't act surprised when a bunch of people become addicted. Especially when there are very effective non addictive alternatives readilly available.
It's like saying that all cops are ethical...lmao. Nope.

I went to one doctor, and he asked me if I wanted this, that or something brand new (opiate wise).

I went to a different one, and he asked me if I wanted to get a green card for medical mary.

So, not all doctors are good. Not all doctors are bad. It's probably somewhere in the middle. They did swear to an oath though.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:17 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by chevss454 View Post
If your sister is so high on the food chain of substance abuse facilities, ask her why these licensed facilities are still feeding methadone to addicts for years and years instead of weaning them off the drug slowly as they are mandated to do. I know why and I have first hand knowledge about it. It's guaranteed government $$$$$ and it's a goldmine for these substance abuse facilities.
You hit a big hot button with my wife. She started a substance abuse counseling agency 25 years ago and she's still keeping the place running. If you want to set her off, mention methadone. She hates it and that's putting it nicely. Early in her career, she took a job at a methadone facility and lasted just a few months. She was disgusted by how the place was run, exactly as you describe. Ironically, there's a methadone clinic directly across the street from her office. It's quite a sight to see the addicts line up while the drug dealers stand off to the side waiting to convince them to buy the stronger stuff. Many of them end up at her agency either voluntarily or court mandated.

She has seen many things from deeply sad to just pathetic. And every morning she gets back in the car to do it all over again. But every success story makes it worthwhile for her.

Keep preaching chevss.
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Old 06-13-2018, 03:05 PM   #191
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You hit a big hot button with my wife. She started a substance abuse counseling agency 25 years ago and she's still keeping the place running. If you want to set her off, mention methadone. She hates it and that's putting it nicely. Early in her career, she took a job at a methadone facility and lasted just a few months. She was disgusted by how the place was run, exactly as you describe. Ironically, there's a methadone clinic directly across the street from her office. It's quite a sight to see the addicts line up while the drug dealers stand off to the side waiting to convince them to buy the stronger stuff. Many of them end up at her agency either voluntarily or court mandated.

She has seen many things from deeply sad to just pathetic. And every morning she gets back in the car to do it all over again. But every success story makes it worthwhile for her.

Keep preaching chevss.
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Old 06-13-2018, 04:51 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Schrute View Post
I donít have evidence.



I donít have access to their legit books or fake books.



But knowing how ruthlessly addictive the products are and how bad the epidemic is why do they not only continue to prescribe but in my case twice and mikies multiple times encourage/push? Even in a situation like mikies where his wife wouldíve suffered major consequences?


So youíre making up lies then. Fair enough.

If you have no evidence , why make such claims? Besides urban legend and other such fallacies.


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Old 06-13-2018, 04:53 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Schrute View Post
No shit it ends up from the street. And usually migrated to heroin.

Because the price of Oxy becomes unbearable but the monkey gets too big to stop. So itís on to cheaper, stronger street heroin coupled with the even more dangerous fentonol.



But the introduction comes from the all too willing Drs.



Thereís other alternatives.



Most patients are far too trusting and just go with whatís recommended.



The bottom line is thereís a MASSIVE problem. There are many guilty parties. To let one sect off because you have a friend or relative is ridiculous imo.



And to have regular back and forth discussion with different thoughts and takes was what I thought an awesome internet forum was precisely existent for, not to put on you teaching shoes and Mr Rogers sweater and come off like some pretentious prick.



Iím out.


No, the issue is that you made claims that you canít/wonít back up. Thatís BS. Most doctors are very ethical people; show us these alternatives when people are having surgeries and need intense pain killers.


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Old 06-13-2018, 05:05 PM   #194
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No, the issue is that you made claims that you canít/wonít back up. Thatís BS. Most doctors are very ethical people; show us these alternatives when people are having surgeries and need intense pain killers.


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Old 06-13-2018, 05:28 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Three words. See. Bee. Dee.





Uh, no. CBD definitely has its uses, but as a post-surgery painkiller? Not yet.


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