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Old 07-17-2014, 10:33 AM   #1
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Malaysian airliner crashes in E. Ukraine near Russian border – reports

A Malaysian Airlines’ Boeing-777 has reportedly crashed over Ukraine, close to the border with Russia.

Espresso TV says the plane, with 285 people on board, was en route from Amsterdam to Malaysia.

DETAILS TO FOLLOW

http://rt.com/news/173616-malaysian-...kraine-border/

Well, at least they know whre this one is.

The interesting part is that it is being reported that this plane "went off radar" before it crashed as well.

So, the Baron's theory is that this plane, just like the one downed in March, was hacked through the remote autopilot as well.

For those who do not know, commerical airliners now have a remote autopilot that allows someone from the ground anywhere in the world to take control of the plane and fly it remotely, like a drone, if you can access it. It overrides the onboard controls entirely, and the crew cannot access the remote system at all.

These were installed as part of the security implementations to prevent another 9/11.

So, nowadays, you don't need a bunch of hijackers on the plane to take it over, you just need a well motivated computer nerd to create another 9/11.

..and that is what I think is going on with these Malaysian airliners. Going off radar prior to crashing is the clue.
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:07 AM   #2
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claims are it was shot down
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:33 AM   #3
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The link you had didn't say anything about "going off radar" but there could be a very simple explanation for any such reports.

Any radar system has limitations on how far, how low, it can track an object. If it crashed it is a reasonable conclusion that it was very low at some point. So one would easily understand why it wasn't on radar anymore.
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:43 AM   #4
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claims are it was shot down
The transponder issue was in the live reports, that it went off radar, meaning the transponder was not detected, 60km out from the crash site. I'm not sure how far 60km is in regards to a damaged plane before it hits the ground, but my understanding is that the transponder keeps reporting until it loses power.

Of course, there are all sorts of reports flying around.

I just heard on the news that an American spy plane was in the area minutes before the Malaysian airline was, and the Russians shot it down thinking it was the spy plane. I find that pretty hard to believe.

Even if it WAS an American spy plane, I doubt the Russians would jsut blow it up like that, due to the escalation it represents. I would expect a warning, a fighter escort to force the plane to turn around or land, or something along those lines. A Russian order to just shoot it down is implausible, in my view, without a series of less aggressive options being used up first.

This early in the game, though, I think just about every possible scenario will be reported.
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:45 AM   #5
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Any radar system has limitations on how far, how low, it can track an object. If it crashed it is a reasonable conclusion that it was very low at some point. So one would easily understand why it wasn't on radar anymore.
Commercial airlines have transponders that broadcast position and identifier constantly, and that is how commercial radar tracks air traffic.

It's not really a radar system that bounces radio waves off and reads the returns. It's more like a cell phone tower tracking all the cell phones searching for signal towers.

EDIT: That is not a precise analogy, actually. It's more like a wireless internet system, where one part pings a query, and the other part answers with an identifier. Just thought I would modify my analogy.

Last edited by Baron Samedi; 07-17-2014 at 11:51 AM..
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Old 07-17-2014, 02:03 PM   #6
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President Putin's plane might have been the target for Ukrainian missile - sources

Malaysian Airlines MH17 plane was travelling almost the same route as Russia’s President Vladimir Putin’s jet shortly before the crash that killed 295, Interfax news agency reports citing sources.

“I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft - 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

"The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical", the source added.

Flight MH17 crashed in Ukraine on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpar, and was carrying 295 people.

The passenger plane was expected to enter Russian airspace at 5:20pm local time, but never did, a Russian aviation industry source was cited by Reuters.

“The plane crashed 60km away from the border, the plane had an emergency beacon,” ITAR-TASS cited its source.

http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/





This story is getting stranger by the minute.....but this story makes the "spy plane" story I saw on the news earlier a bit more credible.

Putin flies through Ukrainian airspace (which is a bit of a "WTF" to begin with, in my view), the US has a spy plane tailing it to try to pick up any communications or other interesting data, Russians track the spy plane....

Sounds more like a Hollywood movie than real life...but who knows.
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Old 07-17-2014, 02:11 PM   #7
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WARNING! The link below has images that are on the gruesome side, though fortunately the bodies have been blurred

At least seventy-one Dutch nationals were on board, reported RTL. It has also been reported by the media that 23 US nationals could have been on board, as well as four French nationals and "between five and 10 Britons" according to a Whitehall source who spoke to Mail Online.

http://rt.com/news/173644-photos-plane-malaysia-crash/
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Old 07-17-2014, 02:20 PM   #8
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Sen. John McCain: "IF it has been shot down by either of the
'separatists' it has a profound effect on all of our relations with Russia. We would now have to give arms to the Ukrainian government and have severe sanctions."


Dear Mr. McCain,

Thanks for showing what a militaristic scumbag you are. The civilian bodies aren't even cold yet, and you are using it to promote getting involved in another war.
You do not know any more facts, presumably, than the rest of us, and yet you want to escalate US involvement in another civil war. Or maybe you DO know the facts because this is a preset narrative to justify US involvement, such as the USS Maine, the Lusitania, or the Tonkin Gulf Incident?

So, Mr. McCain, what if it turns out that the Kiev government shot the plane down? Do we arm the Russians, then?

Moron.

You and Artillery Hillary can both kiss my arse.

Sincerely,

The Baron
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Old 07-17-2014, 03:26 PM   #9
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Occam's razor.

Russians gave the seperatists anti-aircraft weapons.

Seperatists are not sophisticated about checking the transponder signals and take a shot at what they think is a transport.

If I have a choice between human stupidity and elaborate conspiracy (the false flag claims were being made all over the internet before the fire went out) I will pick stupidity every time.
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Old 07-17-2014, 03:50 PM   #10
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Occam's razor.

Russians gave the seperatists anti-aircraft weapons.

Seperatists are not sophisticated about checking the transponder signals and take a shot at what they think is a transport.

If I have a choice between human stupidity and elaborate conspiracy (the false flag claims were being made all over the internet before the fire went out) I will pick stupidity every time.
The Russians supplied MANPADS, man portable anti aircraft weapons.

Those have an altitude limit of 20,000 feet.

The plane was flying at 33,000 feet.

EDIT: That's why AQ doesn't just shoot down planes all over the place. Man portables can't reach commercial jets. If they could, there would be no need to hijack any.

Last edited by Baron Samedi; 07-17-2014 at 03:55 PM..
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Old 07-17-2014, 04:06 PM   #11
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Occam's razor.

Russians gave the seperatists anti-aircraft weapons.

Seperatists are not sophisticated about checking the transponder signals and take a shot at what they think is a transport.

If I have a choice between human stupidity and elaborate conspiracy (the false flag claims were being made all over the internet before the fire went out) I will pick stupidity every time.
This.

Maybe they were going for Putin, but just don't have the intel or brainpower to actually pull off such a stunt.

You know who did this? Assholes. And why did they do it? Because they are assholes.
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Old 07-17-2014, 04:26 PM   #12
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This.

Maybe they were going for Putin, but just don't have the intel or brainpower to actually pull off such a stunt.

You know who did this? Assholes. And why did they do it? Because they are assholes.
That's pretty much it.....
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Old 07-17-2014, 04:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
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The Russians supplied MANPADS, man portable anti aircraft weapons.

Those have an altitude limit of 20,000 feet.

The plane was flying at 33,000 feet.

EDIT: That's why AQ doesn't just shoot down planes all over the place. Man portables can't reach commercial jets. If they could, there would be no need to hijack any.
Reports are the missile came from a Buk Launcher, which according to the articles I have read, can reach a max altitude of 11,000 to 25,000 Kilometers. The flight was reported at an altitude of 10,000 Kilometers, which would put it well within specs for this launcher to bring the plane down.
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Old 07-17-2014, 05:18 PM   #14
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Reports are the missile came from a Buk Launcher, which according to the articles I have read, can reach a max altitude of 11,000 to 25,000 Kilometers. The flight was reported at an altitude of 10,000 Kilometers, which would put it well within specs for this launcher to bring the plane down.
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Old 07-17-2014, 05:50 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
Sen. John McCain: "IF it has been shot down by either of the
'separatists' it has a profound effect on all of our relations with Russia. We would now have to give arms to the Ukrainian government and have severe sanctions."


Dear Mr. McCain,

Thanks for showing what a militaristic scumbag you are. The civilian bodies aren't even cold yet, and you are using it to promote getting involved in another war.
You do not know any more facts, presumably, than the rest of us, and yet you want to escalate US involvement in another civil war. Or maybe you DO know the facts because this is a preset narrative to justify US involvement, such as the USS Maine, the Lusitania, or the Tonkin Gulf Incident?

So, Mr. McCain, what if it turns out that the Kiev government shot the plane down? Do we arm the Russians, then?

Moron.

You and Artillery Hillary can both kiss my arse.

Sincerely,

The Baron
Uh did you notice what he said in his statement?
"IF it has been shot down by either of the 'separatists'
So no, he isn't claiming to know "any more facts", simply speculating that should a certain set of facts turn out to be true, what he thinks is the appropriate response.
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