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Old 05-24-2018, 07:20 PM   #31
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Yes they do. Electricians too. Trades are a lost art
Yep they are god for bid you get you hands dirty, or you risk your life.

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Old 05-24-2018, 07:30 PM   #32
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Yep they are god for bid you get you hands dirty, or you risk your life.

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Ironically, women are radically underrepresented in jobs that take place outdoors and jobs that require hard physical labor. Don't hear many SJWs crying for equality in those sectors, do we?
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:26 PM   #33
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Ironically, women are radically underrepresented in jobs that take place outdoors and jobs that require hard physical labor. Don't hear many SJWs crying for equality in those sectors, do we?
Nope although there are quite a few women in the military but there are still few in combat positions which I’m quite frankly on the fence about, and still many in the nursing field hands on and dirty.

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Old 05-25-2018, 06:20 AM   #34
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Yep they are god for bid you get you hands dirty, or you risk your life.

~Dee~
my favorite years were on the beach in Revere doing layout on most of the buildings. I was there for survey but I did every job on one site (prevailing wage means no one cared). I still use most of the stuff I was taught by the old guys today.

but people should be forced to do a "dirty job" to humble themselves and possibly enjoy it and go into it. I guess a lot of my experience was as a kid and being the one fetching tools on home improvement/maintenance jobs and it got me into it - today few work on their own houses, they hire out because they do not have the time in their schedule to do it, so kids miss out on learning and in a way often look down on the guy doing it.
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Old 05-25-2018, 10:19 AM   #35
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trades not only pay well, they allow people to write their own ticket. One of my sons became an electrician. The masters license allows 3 really good routes to success. You can become a professional tradesman (union or small company), run your own business and in a few years be able to not work (the dirty stuff) at all, should you decide, or become a plant electrician for a manufacturing firm, where pretty much no one will give you any grief and you only work as hard as you want. Going through apprenticeship can be tough, but worth it.
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Old 05-25-2018, 11:29 AM   #36
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trades not only pay well, they allow people to write their own ticket. One of my sons became an electrician. The masters license allows 3 really good routes to success. You can become a professional tradesman (union or small company), run your own business and in a few years be able to not work (the dirty stuff) at all, should you decide, or become a plant electrician for a manufacturing firm, where pretty much no one will give you any grief and you only work as hard as you want. Going through apprenticeship can be tough, but worth it.
MY buddy went from field guy for his brothers to Polaroid and started trouble shooting machines, he is now at Gillette and loving it. Climate controlled work, all the hours he wants to work. sweet deal.
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Old 05-25-2018, 11:48 AM   #37
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On a related note, university has been sold to millennials (and those after) as the greatest experience ever. So much so that universities are racking in money after flinging open their doors and lowering standards tp accommodate the mass influx of applicants. And unfortunately that mass influx has slanted to arts and social science type programs (I'm a grad of these programs). These used to be fine because of transferable skills gained during studies but now what we have is an over-saturation of "educated" and "qualified" youth who feel they are underemployed.

The irony is that it's not some evil market structure keeping people from finding jobs - it's the prioritization of 'finding yourself' or 'pursuing what makes you happy' over planning out a career. People who skipped university in favor of trade or tech schools are not having trouble finding jobs, nor are those who enrolled in sought after degrees in STEM, etc. It shouldn't shock anyone that a mass influx of 'arts grads' with little more than the same shared transferable skills has caused parts of the job market to dry up. But there are others areas that are highly in demand, though few young people take them seriously anymore because they've been sold on the university experience.

I know. I went through it (graduating with a useless degree). Throw in student debt that is ridiculously out of proportion versus the value of the education (if you're in arts/social sciences) and you've got a recipe for a shitty ride into your 30s and 40s for many of them.

And I don't see this getting any better with new parents today because every one I speak with about education spouts off the same non-sense above. Ready to encourage their kids to go into debt for degrees with awful ROI for 'the experience' while crying that the government isn't doing enough to create middle class jobs.
Yes...and universities cost more every year, and the government finances the students more every year, and every year students graduate more deeply in debt. The schools make money, the government makes money, and in a few more years, graduates will be a lifetime in debt to the government for their degree. They will essentially be the property of the government, true socialist citizens, at last.
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Old 05-25-2018, 12:30 PM   #38
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My step sister's dad turned a plumbing company into ~$30m -- there's definitely money in the trades if you play your cards right.
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Old 05-25-2018, 12:33 PM   #39
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Yes...and universities cost more every year, and the government finances the students more every year, and every year students graduate more deeply in debt. The schools make money, the government makes money, and in a few more years, graduates will be a lifetime in debt to the government for their degree. They will essentially be the property of the government, true socialist citizens, at last.
This is an odd conclusion, given that real socialist countries provide education for its citizens at no cost to the individual (but of course paid for through taxes later in their life).
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Old 05-25-2018, 01:00 PM   #40
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This is an odd conclusion, given that real socialist countries provide education for its citizens at no cost to the individual (but of course paid for through taxes later in their life).
In socialism, the citizen is the servant of the state. Higher Education in America will soon be churning out the perfect indentured servants, students will graduate with a debt to the government that can never be paid off.

Through education they will also be taught to be grateful for all of the education and bounty that the state provides them.

They will be taught that their greatness will shine in their hard work and austerity for the benefit of their fellow comrades...so the harder they work, and the less they receive, the greater they are, having overcome base instincts like greed and selfishness.

It's a slow process, but it's getting there. Keep raising the cost of education, keep financing the students to pay off the ever growing bills, and one day, you'll have a generation of well educated and indoctrinated graduates, ready to work hard and live austerely to pay off a debt that can never be paid, and they will take pride in it.

They will literally be slaves to the state.
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Old 05-25-2018, 01:06 PM   #41
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That doesn't explain why actual socialist countries do not do this. I know you want to continue to write Ayn Rand like anti-socialist fan fiction, but there's some serious cognitive dissonance going on.

I think we can all agree that the Scandinavian countries are all socialist to a much higher degree than the US. None of them have for profit education and so there's no need for the government to provide any large degree of student loans. So when you graduate, you have every chance to go do what you want to do -- in effect you're much more likely to achieve the American dream in Denmark than you are in America. All because of a well run socialized education system.
And that's almost exactly the opposite of the scenario you portray, but in a country that isn't ashamed to call itself, at least partly, socialist.

Finally, for what it's worth, I don't disagree that the US educational system is creating a ton of serfs. Not at all. But it has nothing to do with socialism.
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Old 05-25-2018, 01:28 PM   #42
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I'm not really making an analogy to what I guess we would call "democratic socialism".

My comparison is more to the Marxist/Soviet socialism.

Adherence to Marxism-Leninism, and individual behavior consistent with that philosophy's prescriptions, were among the crucial traits expected of the New Soviet man, which required intellectualism and hard discipline.[6] He was not driven by crude impulses of nature but by conscious self-mastery, a belief that required the rejection of both innate personality and the unconscious, which Soviet psychologists therefore rejected.[7]

He treated public property with respect, as if it were his own.[8] He also has lost any nationalist sentiments, being Soviet rather than Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian, or any of the many other nationalities found in the USSR.[9]

His work required exertion and austerity, to show the new man triumphing over his base instincts.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Soviet_man

I mean...what better way to accomplish this than the current American system?

It's perfect, right?
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Old 05-25-2018, 02:06 PM   #43
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In socialism, the citizen is the servant of the state. Higher Education in America will soon be churning out the perfect indentured servants, students will graduate with a debt to the government that can never be paid off.

Through education they will also be taught to be grateful for all of the education and bounty that the state provides them.

They will be taught that their greatness will shine in their hard work and austerity for the benefit of their fellow comrades...so the harder they work, and the less they receive, the greater they are, having overcome base instincts like greed and selfishness.

It's a slow process, but it's getting there. Keep raising the cost of education, keep financing the students to pay off the ever growing bills, and one day, you'll have a generation of well educated and indoctrinated graduates, ready to work hard and live austerely to pay off a debt that can never be paid, and they will take pride in it.

They will literally be slaves to the state.


...
Most universities are private, not government owned.


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Old 05-25-2018, 03:26 PM   #44
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...
Most universities are private, not government owned.


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I think hes talking about student loans. I could be wrong thought.

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Old 05-26-2018, 02:14 PM   #45
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Frankly, I doubt this guy is representative of his generation. Maybe it's different in the US, but I coach teenage tennis players and zero of them have any interest in living at home beyond what is necessary (if we are to allow anecdotal evidence!)
I believe he's a direct offshoot of the Baby Boomerang generation. You toss him out and back he comes.


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