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Old 03-29-2017, 11:21 AM   #166
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Thorough, open, and complete investigation

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...id=fb-share-di

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/doc...n-russia/2390/

Trump wanted to edit Yates's testimony, and basically claimed her testimony would be illegal with Trump's approval. When Yates said, '**** it- let's go ahead', Nunes pulled the plug.


Of course, it's somehow the Dems who are at fault for the lack of evidence coming out.
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Old 03-29-2017, 11:33 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
You'd be hard pressed to find anyone significant in Washington that hasn't had contacts with any Russian diplomats or businessmen.

Why? I believe every one of the people you mentioned has answered that question.

You have to show me some sort of monetary exchange or quid pro quo at the very least if you can't come up with some kind of factual evidence of something questionable. Mere contact, or conversation, especially in the course of normal and public affairs and events, isn't evidence of "hacking" or "collusion". For that, you have to present actual hacking or collusion.

For example, none of the cases you have mentioned come anywhere near the appearance of quid pro quo like the Uranium One deal....and I didn't see any outrage from you or any other lefties over that, and that is a much more glaring example of "evidence".

So...until CNN or someone comes up with something that is at a minimum on par with the Uranium One deal, or Podesta's 75,000 unreported Joule Unlimited stock grant, a rational and reasoned observer would have to say that the Russian influence was on the Democrat side. At least there is an actual paper trail of wealth transfer that one could point to, and apparent quid pro quo considerations.

The documentation matters, not the accusation. Accusations absent documentation are just propaganda, not fact.
Shall we attempt to put a monetary value on the removal of recent sanctions?
Or the pro-Russian Ukraine stance added to the RNC platform by Paul Manafort?

Generally speaking, there are 2 important things to consider in the context of this discussion:
-One entity is slow-walking this and lying throughout. (It is not the Dems)
-The entity making the most 'accusations absent documentation' is the one golfing weekly at Mar a Lago.
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Old 03-29-2017, 11:52 AM   #168
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All the conjecture in the world won't amount to a hill of beans without any proof, of which they have none, zero, zip, nada and if they had proof, it would have already come out.
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Old 03-29-2017, 12:02 PM   #169
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Show me the quid.

I think Manafort is guilty, by the way. I think he is one corrupt SOB, and I think you can make a case against him.

But I'm not one for witch hunts. You have to make the case. All I hear from the leftist and media is accusatons repeated over and over again.

Bring the evidence to the table and we can talk.

The sanctions thing will be a hard sell for me, by the way. First, because I don't believe in government sanctions...they only hurt the common people, not government officials and the rich. Second, because sanctions have a price tag for domestic businesses as much as they do the country they are levied against. For example, if the US and the EU impose sanctions on Iran, that just makes a great business opportunity for Russia and China.

Therefore, I generally oppose all "legal" sanctions...and not just because I favor free trade, but also because they just don't work. At all. Sanctions are just a stepping stone for war....one of the steps you have to take to justify a future war as unavoidable.

Free Market sanctions...such as BDS or other consumer boycotts, I fully support, whether I support the justification or not. It is a form of free speech and liberty to engage in them.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 03-29-2017, 01:46 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
Show me the quid.

I think Manafort is guilty, by the way. I think he is one corrupt SOB, and I think you can make a case against him.

But I'm not one for witch hunts. You have to make the case. All I hear from the leftist and media is accusatons repeated over and over again.

Bring the evidence to the table and we can talk.


The sanctions thing will be a hard sell for me, by the way. First, because I don't believe in government sanctions...they only hurt the common people, not government officials and the rich. Second, because sanctions have a price tag for domestic businesses as much as they do the country they are levied against. For example, if the US and the EU impose sanctions on Iran, that just makes a great business opportunity for Russia and China.

Therefore, I generally oppose all "legal" sanctions...and not just because I favor free trade, but also because they just don't work. At all. Sanctions are just a stepping stone for war....one of the steps you have to take to justify a future war as unavoidable.

Free Market sanctions...such as BDS or other consumer boycotts, I fully support, whether I support the justification or not. It is a form of free speech and liberty to engage in them.
Please convey this to Devin Nunes, who prevented just that from happening this very week, which makes me feel he is shady as hell...and makes me get all 'posty'...
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Old 03-29-2017, 01:55 PM   #171
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Please convey this to Devin Nunes, who prevented just that from happening this very week, which makes me feel he is shady as hell...and makes me get all 'posty'...
Sure, once the individuals in question are masked.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
Peace, Prosperity, Liberty, Human Rights, Natural Rights, Civil Rights, Property Rights, Sound Money, Free Markets, Sovereignty, the Constitution, the Republic.

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Old 03-30-2017, 01:08 PM   #172
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Nunes's sources-

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/30/u...=tw-share&_r=0

Quote:
Several current American officials identified the White House officials as Ezra Cohen-Watnick, the senior director for intelligence at the National Security Council, and Michael Ellis, a lawyer who works on national security issues at the White House Counsel’s Office and formerly worked on the staff of the House Intelligence Committee.

A White House spokesperson declined to comment.

Mr. Cohen-Watnick is a former Defense Intelligence Agency official who was originally brought to the White House by Michael T. Flynn, the former national security adviser.
The new head of the NSA wanted to get rid of the Flynn guy. Trump over-ruled him.

Quote:
President Trump has reportedly overturned a personnel decision made by his national security adviser at the behest of Steve Bannon and Jared Kushner. National Security Adviser Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster had informed Ezra Cohen-Watnick, the National Security Council’s senior director for intelligence programs, that he’d be moving to another position on Friday, Politico reported. McMaster reportedly made the decision after receiving complaints from several career officials about the 30-year-old intelligence operative. But Cohen-Watnick went to Bannon and Kushner—with whom he’d apparently formed an alliance while working on the president’s transition team—and fought the move, two sources close to the matter told Politico. After they informed Trump of the situation Sunday, he overruled McMaster and told Cohen-Watnick he could stay put.

Last edited by benhamean; 03-30-2017 at 01:13 PM..
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Old 03-30-2017, 01:35 PM   #173
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Oh snap!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...rump-team.html
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Old 03-30-2017, 02:03 PM   #174
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I read reports about this weeks ago. It was framed as 'preserving' intelligence regarding the Trump/Russia ties because they were concerned it would be destroyed by the incoming administration.

Doesn't sound far-fetched to me.
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Old 03-30-2017, 02:07 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by benhamean View Post
I read reports about this weeks ago. It was framed as 'preserving' intelligence regarding the Trump/Russia ties because they were concerned it would be destroyed by the incoming administration.

Doesn't sound far-fetched to me.
Me neither. I heard about it before Trump took office, I can't recall the exact time, though.

Do you realize how big of a crime this is? Disseminating classified intelligence on a mass scale to people who lack clearance?

EDIT: My recollection is that Obama made some kind of vague statement regarding it at the time.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
Peace, Prosperity, Liberty, Human Rights, Natural Rights, Civil Rights, Property Rights, Sound Money, Free Markets, Sovereignty, the Constitution, the Republic.

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Twitter is for twits. Nothing on Twitter matters.
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Old 03-30-2017, 02:17 PM   #176
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Me neither. I heard about it before Trump took office, I can't recall the exact time, though.

Do you realize how big of a crime this is? Disseminating classified intelligence on a mass scale to people who lack clearance?

EDIT: My recollection is that Obama made some kind of vague statement regarding it at the time.
What 'dissemination' are you talking about?

---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:14 PM ----------

So, Nunes (and his spokesman) lied. I am shocked. SHOCKED.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...327-story.html

Quote:
Langer said the source of Nunes’ information was not a White House staff member.


This guy really is a goofball.
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Old 03-30-2017, 02:31 PM   #177
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What 'dissemination' are you talking about?[COLOR="Silver"]
Obama changed the way National Security Agency intelligence is shared 8 days before leaving office, which allows globally intercepted communications to be disseminated across the entire intelligence community.

The change was part of a post-9/11 push by the executive branch to increase intelligence sharing, to ensure that NSA analysts do not miss critically important information. The change is “simply widening the aperture for a larger number of analysts, who will be bound by the existing rules,” the Office of the Director of National Intelligence said at the time.

Obama administration officials also scrambled to spread classified intelligence related to Russian meddling in the 2016 election to as many people within the U.S. government as possible. These officials said they spread the intelligence around to ensure Trump administration officials would not be able to quash the investigation. The officials also fought to keep the related intelligence at a low-classified level, giving more officers access to the raw information

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/09/ho...#ixzz4cq5WBAU4


For example...Evelyn Farkas resigned in 2015, and was stripped of her security clearance in 2015.

This didn't preclude her from getting the information, though.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
Peace, Prosperity, Liberty, Human Rights, Natural Rights, Civil Rights, Property Rights, Sound Money, Free Markets, Sovereignty, the Constitution, the Republic.

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Old 03-30-2017, 02:34 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
Me neither. I heard about it before Trump took office, I can't recall the exact time, though.

Do you realize how big of a crime this is? Disseminating classified intelligence on a mass scale to people who lack clearance?

EDIT: My recollection is that Obama made some kind of vague statement regarding it at the time.
https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...uidelines.html

Quote:
First, as the New York Times reported earlier this week, in its final days, the Obama Administration expanded the power of the National Security Agency (NSA) to share globally intercepted personal communication with the government’s 16 other intelligence agencies before applying any privacy protections. The new rules were issued under section 2.3 of Executive Order 12333 after approval by two Obama Administration officials: Attorney General Loretta Lynch and Director of National Intelligence Director, James Clapper.
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Old 03-30-2017, 02:39 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
Obama changed the way National Security Agency intelligence is shared 8 days before leaving office, which allows globally intercepted communications to be disseminated across the entire intelligence community.

The change was part of a post-9/11 push by the executive branch to increase intelligence sharing, to ensure that NSA analysts do not miss critically important information. The change is “simply widening the aperture for a larger number of analysts, who will be bound by the existing rules,” the Office of the Director of National Intelligence said at the time.

Obama administration officials also scrambled to spread classified intelligence related to Russian meddling in the 2016 election to as many people within the U.S. government as possible. These officials said they spread the intelligence around to ensure Trump administration officials would not be able to quash the investigation. The officials also fought to keep the related intelligence at a low-classified level, giving more officers access to the raw information

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/09/ho...#ixzz4cq5WBAU4


For example...Evelyn Farkas resigned in 2015, and was stripped of her security clearance in 2015.

This didn't preclude her from getting the information, though.
RAW intelligence meaning unmasked.

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Old 03-30-2017, 02:40 PM   #180
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Thanks, you two
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