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Old 08-09-2018, 08:39 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawg73 View Post
Can you provide more detail? Give me a specific example of somebody causing an accident from using weed?

I may be guilty of being sardonic about making weed "mandatory", but I'm not kidding that I've STILL never heard a credible story on the topic.
I feel like I'm in a unique position here being as I'm a daily smoker (it's my pre and post workout supplement) and have spent the last 15 years cleaning up car accidents one way or the other. So I see a lot of what causes accidents reading police reports daily. Here three things I think I think on the subject.

1. Driving under the influence of marijuana is not the exact same as alcohol. They effect your body differently. Alcohol is an disinhibiter. You're more agressive and care less about consequences. Neither is good for driving defensively. Marijuana does not have that effect. Which is not to say it's a good idea (more on that) but I would feel confident saying it's orders of magnitude less dangerous than driving while drunk, simply because of the way each substance effects the individual.

2. As mentioned, I read police reports on a daily basis about what happened in a car wreck. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had an accident cross my desk where the driver was high at the time. I couldn't even begin to count the number of times a driver was drunk. Ditto for things like: cell phone usage, driving distracted, driving under certain medications, or driving sleepy just to name a few off the top ofy head.

3. All that said, I still could not in good concious say that driving while high is a good idea. While some of the side effects (paranoia) can lead to more defensive driving (a defensive driver is more or less a paranoid driver) there's still plenty of ways driving high can be dangerous. ESPECIALLY for new smokers who aren't very familiar with the experience. Probably even more so for people eating edibles (which are significantly more hallucinogenic because they're processed by the liver)

TL;DR: It's not a good idea to drive high, but it's unikely legalization is going to turn our roads into death traps. At least not more than they already are.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:57 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Hawg73 View Post
Anybody got something?
About the best I have for you is a lady who apparently "zoned out" and blew through a red light while high.

Now, in the interest of fairness, I get two or three of those a day from people who as far as anyone knows weren't high at the time. If they were, it wasn't obvious enough to prompt the officer to test them.

Again, not saying it's a good idea to drive stoned.
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:16 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by bideau View Post
Do you want a pilot that's high to fly your jet?
Do you want a doctor that's high performing your surgery?
Do want an EMT that's high treating you in an emergency?
Do you want a loved one getting into a taxi if the driver is high?

I don't. I don't need to hear stories to come to that conclusion.
Some strong points, but the problem comes when you substitute the following words or phrases for "high":

exhausted
stressed
clinically depressed
suicidal
angry
distracted
unfocused
poorly trained
having a shitty day
mentally ill
physically ill
using poor judgement
overly aggressive
uncaring...........

the point is that I don't want any of that shit causing me any problems, but all human beings are capable of one or more of those responses on any given day and there is no testing that is possible for most of that, either. And it happens.

Using your last analogy, I think it would be far more dangerous to put a loved one or myself in a cab with an overly aggressive cab driver than one who is not aggressive that smoked a joint on his last break, yet, that is exactly what happens about a million times a day in this country. It is practically expected.

I wish everybody was tip-top every day and never felt the need to use a substance or alcohol to make themselves feel better, but that's the way it is in this world.

Life is barely controlled chaos and Police and Big Brother would be way better off putting every resource they have into eliminating drunk driving once and for all before they worry about stoned driving, because it is simply a far greater menace to the public good.
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:19 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
About the best I have for you is a lady who apparently "zoned out" and blew through a red light while high.

Now, in the interest of fairness, I get two or three of those a day from people who as far as anyone knows weren't high at the time. If they were, it wasn't obvious enough to prompt the officer to test them.

Again, not saying it's a good idea to drive stoned.
or the cop let them go since they totaled their car and they have no way to test them and a field sobriety test is hard to do with a wreck


More drivers killed in car crashes show traces of pot, opioids in their systems

Quote:
Drug tests of car drivers killed in crashes are finding significantly more had marijuana and opioids in their system than just a decade ago.

The report from the Governors Highway Safety Association found that 44% of drivers who died and were tested had positive results for drugs in 2016, up from 28% in 2006.

And the presence of pot in tested drivers has increased substantially in the past decade, it found, more than the presence of opioids. In 2016, 41% of the drug-positive fatalities showed marijuana in the bloodstream compared with 35% in 2006. But about 20% of the drug-positive drivers had some type of opioid present compared with 17% in 2006. Meanwhile, of the deceased drivers with known alcohol test results, about 38% tested positive for any amount in 2016, a slight drop from 41% a decade earlier.
more
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:20 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsFan09 View Post
My ex girlfriend was high and hit someone with her car in Worcester. Thankfully it wasnít fatal, but she had smoked up before getting behind the wheel.


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Then that makes one story.

Ding, ding!
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:22 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Hawg73 View Post
Some strong points, but the problem comes when you substitute the following words or phrases for "high":

exhausted
stressed
clinically depressed
suicidal
angry
distracted
unfocused
poorly trained
having a shitty day
mentally ill
physically ill
using poor judgement
overly aggressive
uncaring...........

the point is that I don't want any of that shit causing me any problems, but all human beings are capable of one or more of those responses on any given day and there is no testing that is possible for most of that, either. And it happens.

Using your last analogy, I think it would be far more dangerous to put a loved one or myself in a cab with an overly aggressive cab driver than one who is not aggressive that smoked a joint on his last break, yet, that is exactly what happens about a million times a day in this country. It is practically expected.

I wish everybody was tip-top every day and never felt the need to use a substance or alcohol to make themselves feel better, but that's the way it is in this world.

Life is barely controlled chaos and Police and Big Brother would be way better off putting every resource they have into eliminating drunk driving once and for all before they worry about stoned driving, because it is simply a far greater menace to the public good.
it test for both, why not eliminate both?

---------- Post added at 10:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawg73 View Post
Then that makes one story.

Ding, ding!
I have friends that have but they claim it was the road conditions and stuff, I disagree, they were baked and reacted bad
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:32 AM   #37
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Couple things on that because it always gets brought up.

1. All those tests checks for is if weed is "in their system" not if they're high at the time of the accident. Since THC can stay "in your system" for weeks, the causal link between legalization and death and destruction on the highways isn't really there. All those studies show is that more people have marijuana in their systems, not that more people are causing fatal traffic accidents because weed is legal.

2. Last I checked, the overall number of traffic fatalities in states where weed was legal have remained relatively static (I think even a few states went down). If the premise that legalization leads to traffic deaths, I would expect that number to go up by a significant amount.

3. Regardless, if a substance being more likely to cause traffic fatalities is reason to ban it, I've got some VERY bad news for those of you who like to drink.
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:34 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Couple things on that because it always gets brought up.

1. All those tests checks for is if weed is "in their system" not if they're high at the time of the accident. Since THC can stay "in your system" for weeks, the causal link between legalization and death and destruction on the highways isn't really there. All those studies show is that more people have marijuana in their systems, not that more people are causing fatal traffic accidents because weed is legal.

2. Last I checked, the overall number of traffic fatalities in states where weed was legal have remained relatively static (I think even a few states went down). If the premise that legalization leads to traffic deaths, I would expect that number to go up by a significant amount.

3. Regardless, if a substance being more likely to cause traffic fatalities is reason to ban it, I've got some VERY bad news for those of you who like to drink.
you said a couple and that was a menage a trois
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:35 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by mikiemo83 View Post
or the cop let them go since they totaled their car and they have no way to test them and a field sobriety test is hard to do with a wreck
Not so much. In fact the more severe the accident the more likely they are to perform some kind of impairment test. I routinely see police officers show up at hospitals to perform tests on people who got fucked up in the accident.
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:40 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Couple things on that because it always gets brought up.

1. All those tests checks for is if weed is "in their system" not if they're high at the time of the accident. Since THC can stay "in your system" for weeks, the causal link between legalization and death and destruction on the highways isn't really there. All those studies show is that more people have marijuana in their systems, not that more people are causing fatal traffic accidents because weed is legal.

2. Last I checked, the overall number of traffic fatalities in states where weed was legal have remained relatively static (I think even a few states went down). If the premise that legalization leads to traffic deaths, I would expect that number to go up by a significant amount.

3. Regardless, if a substance being more likely to cause traffic fatalities is reason to ban it, I've got some VERY bad news for those of you who like to drink.
1. is there a High test that you can say level is too high?

I mean besides placing brownies n front of the cat.

2. I bet most drink and bake so it is a DD stat still.

3. not sure if anyone called for it banned but like booze you can hit a level and thats it, anything over is an offense. - this sucks for the everyday user who builds a tolerance to it, like the drinker who hits .24 on the BAl and you swear they are cold sober.

---------- Post added at 10:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Not so much. In fact the more severe the accident the more likely they are to perform some kind of impairment test. I routinely see police officers show up at hospitals to perform tests on people who got fucked up in the accident.
should be mandatory that it you are taken to a hospital as a driver a blood test is given to test levels
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:01 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by mikiemo83 View Post
1. is there a High test that you can say level is too high?

I mean besides placing brownies n front of the cat.
Not that I'm aware of, at least not like with alcohol where we have a pretty good idea where you are based on BAC. I couldn't tell if that's what the test in question was designed to do or if it's just a simple pass/fail.


Quote:
2. I bet most drink and bake so it is a DD stat still.
I can't really confirm or deny this with anything other than anecdotal evidence. My suspicion is that is not "generally" the case, although it certainly happens.

Quote:
3. not sure if anyone called for it banned but like booze you can hit a level and thats it, anything over is an offense. - this sucks for the everyday user who builds a tolerance to it, like the drinker who hits .24 on the BAl and you swear they are cold sober.
Usually when that data gets trotted out it's under the guise of "we need to keep this stuff illegal unless we want highways paved in the blood of the innocent."

My only point is that the data doesn't say what people are claiming it says.
Quote:
should be mandatory that it you are taken to a hospital as a driver a blood test is given to test levels
State law varies obviously, but taking a blood test for fatality accidents is pretty standard procedure. Not sure about other situations where the test is compulsory.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:09 AM   #42
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phones should be the 1st thing to be addressed.

driving to NH yesterday my daughter pointed out several people not texting but actually watching videos on their phone.

I have seen a guy shaving with the paper in the steering wheel while in traffic going into Boston.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:11 AM   #43
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phones should be the 1st thing to be addressed.

driving to NH yesterday my daughter pointed out several people not texting but actually watching videos on their phone.

I have seen a guy shaving with the paper in the steering wheel while in traffic going into Boston.
I live in NH and commute to Wakefield MA everyday. The amount of people I see texting on both commutes is terrifying.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:17 AM   #44
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oh boy.... this is big, Keller is speaking on the topic now!!!!

Keller @ Large: Stoned Driving Is Just As Bad As Drunk Driving
link

Quote:
OSTON (CBS) – Recreational marijuana use is now legal in Massachusetts, and it won’t be long before the pot shops are up and running. And you know what that means – some people will be getting stoned, and then getting behind the wheel.

In a new public service announcement video, the state is warning that the same laws against drunk driving also apply to driving under the influence of pot.
more at link above
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:24 AM   #45
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actually by the nose test I tihnk more and more people are smoking and driving these days. now it is not a scientific test but when stopped at a set of lights open the window and inhale. More and more I am getting that strange skunk smell.

or set up a piece of survey equipment and stand on the side of a road and see how often the scent appears.

OF COURSE THE AMOUNT OF NIPS I SEE IS UNREAL TOO
I work right in a downtown setting.

The numbers of cars that drive by with the bass thumping and smoke and smell spilling out like Spiccolli since the ballot question increased 10-20 times. I canít sit on the front steps 10í from the road and not smell it at least every 5-10 minutes.

And they do not care that you notice.
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