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Old 08-08-2018, 09:53 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by mooseontheloose View Post
In the long run? Probably not.


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Yeah, ask me the ratio of accidents caused by human error vs mechanical error.
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Old 08-09-2018, 06:35 AM   #17
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It's my belief that "impairment" for being high while driving is a joke.

I base this on being a former chronic weed smoker and being immersed in that life. My point is that I know dozens of people that have been involved in car accidents from being drunk behind the wheel and have never known of a single incident from being high involving anybody that I know personally. The caveat being that the two are not mutually exclusive. Sometimes people are high AND drunk, but I don't believe that is WORSE than simply being drunk. It may actually be somewhat safer. At very least it is less likely, imo, that a person would channel the ghost of Dale Earnhardt while stoned and decide to see how fast their car really is.

This made me curious, so I have asked dozens of other people if they may have heard of anyone they know getting in a weed accident. Not once has any credible story come forth. Everybody just shrugs. All I've heard is third-hand urban myth types of things.

The other day I was hanging out with a firefighter/EMT and figured that here I have an expert witness, so I asked him. He admitted that he had had never run across a stoned driving accident. Ever. In response to how many drunk driving accidents he has attended to he said "hundreds".

It would be more useful to make ingesting or smoking Marijuana mandatory for everybody driving a car than to waste public resources by trying to bag people who are, in all probability, being far more careful than they normally would while driving. It's a cliche' but it is quite true, imo, that people who are high typically drive slower and slower is almost always safer (within reason). Paranoia is a fundamental skill that every Massachusetts driver should learn from day one. Be very afraid what is going on in the other guy's head and be extremely cautious at all times. Guess what makes people paranoid?

This whole thing is absurd to me. It's a waste of time and money.
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Old 08-09-2018, 06:59 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawg73 View Post
It's my belief that "impairment" for being high while driving is a joke.

I base this on being a former chronic weed smoker and being immersed in that life. My point is that I know dozens of people that have been involved in car accidents from being drunk behind the wheel and have never known of a single incident from being high involving anybody that I know personally. The caveat being that the two are not mutually exclusive. Sometimes people are high AND drunk, but I don't believe that is WORSE than simply being drunk. It may actually be somewhat safer. At very least it is less likely, imo, that a person would channel the ghost of Dale Earnhardt while stoned and decide to see how fast their car really is.

This made me curious, so I have asked dozens of other people if they may have heard of anyone they know getting in a weed accident. Not once has any credible story come forth. Everybody just shrugs. All I've heard is third-hand urban myth types of things.

The other day I was hanging out with a firefighter/EMT and figured that here I have an expert witness, so I asked him. He admitted that he had had never run across a stoned driving accident. Ever. In response to how many drunk driving accidents he has attended to he said "hundreds".

It would be more useful to make ingesting or smoking Marijuana mandatory for everybody driving a car than to waste public resources by trying to bag people who are, in all probability, being far more careful than they normally would while driving. It's a cliche' but it is quite true, imo, that people who are high typically drive slower and slower is almost always safer (within reason). Paranoia is a fundamental skill that every Massachusetts driver should learn from day one. Be very afraid what is going on in the other guy's head and be extremely cautious at all times. Guess what makes people paranoid?

This whole thing is absurd to me. It's a waste of time and money.
Sorry, but you're just plain wrong on this. Spend a week in my wife's agency to seen what's really happening out there. While this perspective is great for her business, there are countless lives being ruined.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:11 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by bideau View Post
Sorry, but you're just plain wrong on this. Spend a week in my wife's agency to seen what's really happening out there. While this perspective is great for her business, there are countless lives being ruined.
Can you provide more detail? Give me a specific example of somebody causing an accident from using weed?

I may be guilty of being sardonic about making weed "mandatory", but I'm not kidding that I've STILL never heard a credible story on the topic.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:30 AM   #20
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I dunno. Can't you just book em for doing 20 in a 40 mph zone?


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Old 08-09-2018, 07:38 AM   #21
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I think what many 'weed activists' don't realize is that impairment may not be the same for them as it is for a new/first-time smoker.

I know when I first smoked weed I was mostly functional, but the first time my friends introduced me to a killer bong setup I was wrecked. There is no way I could have driven safely that night. None. But my friends (regular smokers) were fine and as my tolerance improved I never really experienced another night like that.

Guys getting high daily are different than rookies from my experience so the tolerance threshold before 'impairment' may not be the same for all.

But obviously for public health and safety, it doesn't make sense to base rules on the daily smoker.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:40 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawg73 View Post
Can you provide more detail? Give me a specific example of somebody causing an accident from using weed?

I may be guilty of being sardonic about making weed "mandatory", but I'm not kidding that I've STILL never heard a credible story on the topic.
I had an accident as a HS driver. Stupid as Fvck.

But I was high as a mutha-fvcker.

Smoked a joint and a half before school of this strain that only made its way in our circle of supply one time called Lambs Breath. Holy crap. Fender bender in the School lot revving my engine and the foot slipped off the brake. Idiot. Couldíve pinched someone between 2 cars. All to the nasty bass tracks of Dioís Holy Diver.

Wow, memory lane had a bump.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:43 AM   #23
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Quote:
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Yeah, ask me the ratio of accidents caused by human error vs mechanical error.
Exactly.

But there are a few important caveats.

1. Once machines learn everything they need to learn, they won't repeat mistakes. Human error has all kinds of potential influencing factors (ie. being tired, distracted, physical mistake with the pedals/wheel, etc.) that just won't occur for AI.

2. Related to the above, there will be deaths by machine during the learning phase as we've already seen. But it's not like those deaths wouldn't exist anyway. Driving is the most dangerous activity North Americans participate in on a daily basis as it is. Obviously it's less 'palatable' to see people killed by AI/machines, but to suggest keeping machines off our roads is safer is kind of short-sighted. Long-term, if machine learning evolves as expected, every human taken off the road will be a big win.

Humans operating large machinery and even passenger vehicles is incredibly dangerous. Machines have already made things like manufacturing safer so it's hard to believe they won't do the same for driving.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:43 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseontheloose View Post
I think what many 'weed activists' don't realize is that impairment may not be the same for them as it is for a new/first-time smoker.

I know when I first smoked weed I was mostly functional, but the first time my friends introduced me to a killer bong setup I was wrecked. There is no way I could have driven safely that night. None. But my friends (regular smokers) were fine and as my tolerance improved I never really experienced another night like that.

Guys getting high daily are different than rookies from my experience so the tolerance threshold before 'impairment' may not be the same for all.

But obviously for public health and safety, it doesn't make sense to base rules on the daily smoker.
Great point.

And also, while Iíll concur slower IS generally safer, gripping the wheel white knuckled going 42 on the southeast expressway while the rest of the flow of traffic is going 70-90 is most definitely not safe.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:03 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawg73 View Post
Can you provide more detail? Give me a specific example of somebody causing an accident from using weed?

I may be guilty of being sardonic about making weed "mandatory", but I'm not kidding that I've STILL never heard a credible story on the topic.
No I can't because my wife does not speak specifics about her clientelle, that would be highly unethical as well as illegal. But she does see the damage done on a daily basis. Weed is far from benign.

You won't hear official stories for several reasons, most importantly being that there is no accurate field test for it. But plenty of drivers have ben arrested for impairment from field sobriety tests. Also, you don't have people going to bars and smoking. Most people do their smoking at home, so you will have fewer drivers.

There's plenty of research that shows driving to be impaired when high. For me, the bottom line is that impairment is impairment. If you want to risk your own life, go ahead, but don't risk mine and my family's life.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:23 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bideau View Post
No I can't because my wife does not speak specifics about her clientelle, that would be highly unethical as well as illegal. But she does see the damage done on a daily basis. Weed is far from benign.

You won't hear official stories for several reasons, most importantly being that there is no accurate field test for it. But plenty of drivers have ben arrested for impairment from field sobriety tests. Also, you don't have people going to bars and smoking. Most people do their smoking at home, so you will have fewer drivers.

There's plenty of research that shows driving to be impaired when high. For me, the bottom line is that impairment is impairment. If you want to risk your own life, go ahead, but don't risk mine and my family's life.
I don't care about "official" stories. I just want one that goes beyond Dwight's fender-bender in a HS parking lot.

I'd take anything anybody has. Let's hear one about the high person slamming into an oak tree. Driving off a cliff. Anything substantial. Something that will make it more concrete and less subjective.

I didn't want to take a position that it is bullshit and am really not "in favor" of weed in the overall, but I figure that by this point there should be something substantive that happened to somebody that I can really use to change my opinion.

Smoking weed never did me any favors in life, but I've driven high a hundred times and never came close to feeling "impaired". Perhaps I was delusional but my feeling was that I was more aware and careful to NOT get in an accident. That seems to be a very common observation among those with personal experience on the topic. That they are very aware and not less aware.

Anybody got something?
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:27 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bideau View Post
No I can't because my wife does not speak specifics about her clientelle, that would be highly unethical as well as illegal. But she does see the damage done on a daily basis. Weed is far from benign.

You won't hear official stories for several reasons, most importantly being that there is no accurate field test for it. But plenty of drivers have ben arrested for impairment from field sobriety tests. Also, you don't have people going to bars and smoking. Most people do their smoking at home, so you will have fewer drivers.

There's plenty of research that shows driving to be impaired when high. For me, the bottom line is that impairment is impairment. If you want to risk your own life, go ahead, but don't risk mine and my family's life.
actually by the nose test I tihnk more and more people are smoking and driving these days. now it is not a scientific test but when stopped at a set of lights open the window and inhale. More and more I am getting that strange skunk smell.

or set up a piece of survey equipment and stand on the side of a road and see how often the scent appears.

OF COURSE THE AMOUNT OF NIPS I SEE IS UNREAL TOO
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:30 AM   #28
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I don't care about "official" stories. I just want one that goes beyond Dwight's fender-bender in a HS parking lot.



I'd take anything anybody has. Let's hear one about the high person slamming into an oak tree. Driving off a cliff. Anything substantial. Something that will make it more concrete and less subjective.



I didn't want to take a position that it is bullshit and am really not "in favor" of weed in the overall, but I figure that by this point there should be something substantive that happened to somebody that I can really use to change my opinion.



Smoking weed never did me any favors in life, but I've driven high a hundred times and never came close to feeling "impaired". Perhaps I was delusional but my feeling was that I was more aware and careful to NOT get in an accident. That seems to be a very common observation among those with personal experience on the topic. That they are very aware and not less aware.



Anybody got something?


My ex girlfriend was high and hit someone with her car in Worcester. Thankfully it wasnít fatal, but she had smoked up before getting behind the wheel.


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Old 08-09-2018, 08:31 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawg73 View Post
I don't care about "official" stories. I just want one that goes beyond Dwight's fender-bender in a HS parking lot.

I'd take anything anybody has. Let's hear one about the high person slamming into an oak tree. Driving off a cliff. Anything substantial. Something that will make it more concrete and less subjective.

I didn't want to take a position that it is bullshit and am really not "in favor" of weed in the overall, but I figure that by this point there should be something substantive that happened to somebody that I can really use to change my opinion.

Smoking weed never did me any favors in life, but I've driven high a hundred times and never came close to feeling "impaired". Perhaps I was delusional but my feeling was that I was more aware and careful to NOT get in an accident. That seems to be a very common observation among those with personal experience on the topic. That they are very aware and not less aware.

Anybody got something?
Do you want a pilot that's high to fly your jet?
Do you want a doctor that's high performing your surgery?
Do want an EMT that's high treating you in an emergency?
Do you want a loved one getting into a taxi if the driver is high?

I don't. I don't need to hear stories to come to that conclusion.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:32 AM   #30
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One potential wrinkle is that weed and booze are often consumed together.


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