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View Poll Results: Are Pass Rushers on 2nd contracts worth their premium salary?
Absolutely they're worth the money! I want one now! 6 60.00%
No, they're a very poor value; the money can be better spent. 4 40.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-09-2018, 06:07 AM   #1
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Is Pass Rusher Still A Premium Position?

Sean Payton says yes in this thought provoking article on the subject.

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/5/...osition-salary


BB says no. Seymour and Chandler Jones trades offer proof of that.



Gaspar also says yes in his controversial article that criticizes BB for the Chandler Jones trade. Part of Bill Belichick's coaching genius is overcoming some of his ...

Is it really worth $14M/ to have a great DE?



When BB traded Chandler Jones because of his premium asking price, BB freed up cap space and got draft picks to add 4 very good players. BB's return on that trade turned out to be Stephon Gilmore, Joe Thuney, Malcolm Mitchell & he had $3M left over to add someone like Burkhead for the exact same money as CJones was paid.



As for the Cardinals, they were 13-3 the year before acquiring CJones and they are 15-16-1 since (yeah, I know there are multiple reasons for that) but the Cardinals' defense actually got worse after adding Jones.



Ok, so where do you stand on the pass rush issue? Over paid and over rated or a good value for the dollars spent?
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Old 08-09-2018, 06:29 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevss454 View Post
Sean Payton says yes in this thought provoking article on the subject.

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/5/...osition-salary


BB says no. Seymour and Chandler Jones trades offer proof of that.



Gaspar also says yes in his controversial article that criticizes BB for the Chandler Jones trade. Part of Bill Belichick's coaching genius is overcoming some of his ...

Is it really worth $14M/ to have a great DE?



When BB traded Chandler Jones because of his premium asking price, BB freed up cap space and got draft picks to add 4 very good players. BB's return on that trade turned out to be Stephon Gilmore, Joe Thuney, Malcolm Mitchell & he had $3M left over to add someone like Burkhead for the exact same money as CJones was paid.



As for the Cardinals, they were 13-3 the year before acquiring CJones and they are 15-16-1 since (yeah, I know there are multiple reasons for that) but the Cardinals' defense actually got worse after adding Jones.



Ok, so where do you stand on the pass rush issue? Over paid and over rated or a good value for the dollars spent?
I mean, who isnít smarter than Bill?

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Old 08-09-2018, 07:01 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevss454 View Post
Sean Payton says yes in this thought provoking article on the subject.

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/5/...osition-salary


BB says no. Seymour and Chandler Jones trades offer proof of that.



Gaspar also says yes in his controversial article that criticizes BB for the Chandler Jones trade. Part of Bill Belichick's coaching genius is overcoming some of his ...

Is it really worth $14M/ to have a great DE?



When BB traded Chandler Jones because of his premium asking price, BB freed up cap space and got draft picks to add 4 very good players. BB's return on that trade turned out to be Stephon Gilmore, Joe Thuney, Malcolm Mitchell & he had $3M left over to add someone like Burkhead for the exact same money as CJones was paid.



As for the Cardinals, they were 13-3 the year before acquiring CJones and they are 15-16-1 since (yeah, I know there are multiple reasons for that) but the Cardinals' defense actually got worse after adding Jones.



Ok, so where do you stand on the pass rush issue? Over paid and over rated or a good value for the dollars spent?
It's certainly an interesting question and we all have a pretty good idea of where BB stands on this issue.

I think part of the issue is that the best "pass rushers" tend to commit fully to that aspect of the game while sacrificing some of the read and react gap control that is one of the prime defensive philosophies out there.

Ideally, the perfect guy for our system is somebody like Trey Flowers who can do whatever you ask of him, but would probably pile up more sacks if he was allowed to freelance as he likely will next season wherever he ends up.

Ideally, you'd like to have more players who can rush at manageable salaries, much like Philly had last season, than one big-ticket dozen-sack guy who can be game-planned for.

In general, you don't see many DEs known for pass-rushing signing big deals and then earning that money in production. Most of them disappoint. I'd go with "no".
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:53 AM   #4
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Of course Payton will say yes.

He just gave up this years and next years 1s to move up for one.

I’d say it’s team schematic. You can base your team defense around premier DEs and compensate with a weaker roster elsewhere. Denver, the Clots, Panthers. Multiple teams have done it this way and have been successful. But it ties up huge resources because those guys get paid.

Bill relies more on his savvy, identifying players with less initial shine that fit. Unfortunately once he develops them they tend to break bank elsewhere. I’d like to see him hang on to Flowers, Wise, and Rivers and see what we have in 4-5 yrs.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:08 AM   #5
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Unless it's a generational talent like Von Miller (who went #frickin 2 overall)- no.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:22 AM   #6
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I guess it really depends on a team's identity. The past however many years Brady has been around, I would say no. The Patriot's "identity" is their potent offense. There is no real need for a great pass rush. Winning 38-35 is as good as winning 10-3. But the Broncos "identity" the past handful of years has been it's defense. The defense won that Super Bowl and Von Miller was the MVP, but he couldn't have done it with out D. Ware's help and Wolfe and Jackson and so on.

Look at the Broncos' Super Bowl loss to the Seahawks. The defense was missing 3 crucial players, including Von Miller.
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Old 08-09-2018, 11:11 AM   #7
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I guess it really depends on a team's identity. The past however many years Brady has been around, I would say no. The Patriot's "identity" is their potent offense. There is no real need for a great pass rush.
And Brady's 2 second Magic sure helps.

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Old 08-09-2018, 11:17 AM   #8
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Depends on the defense. Good luck playing cover/Tampa 2 without a pass rush.
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Old 08-09-2018, 12:11 PM   #9
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Would I pay Jones that much money? No.

Would I pay a freak of nature who can be a probowl DE AND a probowl Linebacker? Maybe...

It depends.

Does your team have Brady as the qb?

A better situation would be like Seattle's past defensive line. Or the Giants. I guess the Eagles had their version of it too. Have a bunch of better than average players that can swap out each other so they are always fresh. NASCAR package or sumtin.

It seems like BB plays around with the idea, then trades them away...or just releases them for peanuts.

Last edited by Big/Sky/Fly; 08-09-2018 at 12:19 PM..
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Old 08-09-2018, 12:14 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by yackittysacks View Post
I guess it really depends on a team's identity. The past however many years Brady has been around, I would say no. The Patriot's "identity" is their potent offense. There is no real need for a great pass rush. Winning 38-35 is as good as winning 10-3. But the Broncos "identity" the past handful of years has been it's defense. The defense won that Super Bowl and Von Miller was the MVP, but he couldn't have done it with out D. Ware's help and Wolfe and Jackson and so on.

Look at the Broncos' Super Bowl loss to the Seahawks. The defense was missing 3 crucial players, including Von Miller.
In a nutshell, yes.
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Old 08-09-2018, 12:20 PM   #11
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Well it would have been nice if the eagles Qb in the superbowl didnt have 20 seconds to survey the field in the superbowl, so...yes. But as someone said, just being able to rush the passer and do nothing else is not as helpful.
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