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Old 04-03-2018, 10:52 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Despot View Post
Jaric,

The deterrent assumes rational actors. Even despots need subjects to rule.

To date, if you cut through the rhetoric, Kim Jong Un has been rational.

DJT may or may not be, but he's not really able to "push the button" all by himself.

I think the forward nightmare is terrorists who are not under the control of a state with something to lose getting a nuke or 2.

They're the problem, be it nuclear, or chemical, or biological.
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Old 04-03-2018, 11:04 AM   #17
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Yeah I actually think the CIC can do just that.
Well you're wrong bud, he can't.
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Old 04-03-2018, 11:23 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by AkPatsFan View Post
Well you're wrong bud, he can't.
Quote:
Only the President can direct the use of nuclear weapons by U.S. armed forces, including the Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP). While the President does have unilateral authority as commander-in-chief to order that nuclear weapons be used for any reason at any time, the actual procedures and technical systems in place for authorizing the execution of a launch order requires a secondary confirmation under a two-man rule, as the President's order is subject to secondary confirmation by the Secretary of Defense. If the Secretary of Defense does not concur, then the President may in his sole discretion fire the Secretary. The Secretary of Defense has legal authority to approve the order, but cannot veto it.
It's not like he has a button on a keychain that sends the nukes, but the call to send them is his and his alone.
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Old 04-03-2018, 11:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
It's not like he has a button on a keychain that sends the nukes, but the call to send them is his and his alone.
What...you think the guy with the briefcase will bonk him on the head, mess up his hair, and run away?
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 04-03-2018, 11:50 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Darth Despot View Post
I think the forward nightmare is terrorists who are not under the control of a state with something to lose getting a nuke or 2.
I should have addressed this earlier.

The nightmare going forward could very likely be terrorists in power of a nuclear state....(otherwise known as Pakistan.)
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:06 PM   #21
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It's not like he has a button on a keychain that sends the nukes, but the call to send them is his and his alone.
Well that's not what you said, there's a big difference between what you wrote previously and what your wrote here.

If those with the launch codes deem that order unconstitutional, they don't have to follow them. To think that people actually believe that Trump (or any president for that matter) would be so wreck less when it comes to nukes is kind of mind boggling.
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:09 PM   #22
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My guess is if any president said "I'm kinda pissed at _________ (fill in random foreign leader) let's lob a Nuke at ___________ (Corresponding capital) there are protocols to make sure that order is not actually carried out.
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by AkPatsFan View Post
Well that's not what you said, there's a big difference between what you wrote previously and what your wrote here.

If those with the launch codes deem that order unconstitutional, they don't have to follow them. To think that people actually believe that Trump (or any president for that matter) would be so wreck less when it comes to nukes is kind of mind boggling.
Yes and if they don't follow his order he is within his power to fire them and replace them with someone who will. Considering he's surrounded himself with sycophants, I'm pretty sure he'll be able to find someone willing to do what he wants.

As to how reckless he is...we'll probably have to agree to disagree on that subject.
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:13 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Darth Despot View Post
My guess is if any president said "I'm kinda pissed at _________ (fill in random foreign leader) let's lob a Nuke at ___________ (Corresponding capital) there are protocols to make sure that order is not actually carried out.
At least someone gets it.
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:17 PM   #25
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My guess is if any president said "I'm kinda pissed at _________ (fill in random foreign leader) let's lob a Nuke at ___________ (Corresponding capital) there are protocols to make sure that order is not actually carried out.
That would be the same protocol as an order given to shoot American civilians.

The soldier must decide whether the order is a legal one or not. The soldier is responsible for his actions, even when under orders. So the solider must determine whether he or she is committing a crime if they obey the order.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:18 PM   #26
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Yes and if they don't follow his order he is within his power to fire them and replace them with someone who will. Considering he's surrounded himself with sycophants, I'm pretty sure he'll be able to find someone willing to do what he wants.

As to how reckless he is...we'll probably have to agree to disagree on that subject.
You clearly don't know how the system works, you've been watching to many movies.
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:19 PM   #27
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So are you guys contending the guy who actually pushes the button has to be pursuaded to push it?

---------- Post added at 03:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 PM ----------

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You clearly don't know how the system works, you've been watching to many movies.
Oh, I'm sorry, the president doesn't have the power to fire and replace the secretary of defense? Is that what you're claiming?
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:21 PM   #28
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So are you guys contending the guy who actually pushes the button has to be pursuaded to push it?

---------- Post added at 03:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 PM ----------



Oh, I'm sorry, the president doesn't have the power to fire and replace the secretary of defense? Is that what you're claiming?
What does this have to do with the SOD?
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:27 PM   #29
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The secretary of defense has to approve the launch (but can't veto it). The president has the power to fire the SOD and replace him. Presumably with someone who will approve the launch.

This effectivly means if Trump wakes up tomorrow and wants to turn North Korea into a radioactive crater he is able to do so.
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:46 PM   #30
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The secretary of defense has to approve the launch (but can't veto it). The president has the power to fire the SOD and replace him. Presumably with someone who will approve the launch.

This effectivly means if Trump wakes up tomorrow and wants to turn North Korea into a radioactive crater he is able to do so.
Mattis isn't going to let him go rogue and if Trump fired him because he wouldn't help him launch nukes, I'm pretty sure he'd be locked up pretty damn quick (as he should be). You can believe whatever you want but Trump isn't going to launch nukes at anyone unless there is a legit reason for it. We're just going to have to agree to disagree.
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