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Old 10-18-2006, 04:16 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peytonsux on 10-18-2006 at 03:21 PM
Meanwhile, our public school system is in a constant state of decline- have any of you seen the Fed Ex commercial where the guy can't find China on a map? I personally think that this commercial is idiotic, but that's a clear statement as to the quality of education that kids are getting. Self-esteem and social promotion are the order of the day, who gives a **** if the kid can read or do simple math? As long as they feel good about themselves is all that counts.
A 25-year-old blue collar worker asked me yesterday how to write "one hundred and six thousand" . I sheeeet you not. He couldn't figure out how to do it....and he was the foreman.

It renewed my confidence that I will continue to have access to high-ish-paying jobs in the future....or at least until my industry is outsourced to China or India.

I suggest you have your kids bone up on Buddhist, Hinduist, and Chinese folk religions/cultures. ;)

Last edited by Wandering Athol; 10-18-2006 at 04:22 PM..
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Old 10-18-2006, 05:38 PM   #32
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If it weren't for religion

Would there be a war in Iraq? How many terrorists would blow themselves up if they didn't believe in an afterlife?

Religion is a form of brainwashing. Your religion depends on who is doing the brainwashing. Some people have figured this out.
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Old 10-18-2006, 06:48 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alcoholic9 on 10-18-2006 at 04:13 PM
You have to admit christianity is THE government sponsored religion though, which totally goes against the constitution. However, as long as there are millions of christians in this country, who will toss their vote to whatever politician mentions Jesus in his speeches, there's not much that can be done about it.
Is there a law that says you have to be a Christian? Is there a church anywhere that calls itself the "official church of the US"? If you aren't a Christian, do you automatically get put in jail/executed/persecuted? No? Then I guess there's no government sponsored religion. There may be a religion that the majority of our government officials believe in, but in no way is anyone forced to believe in a certain faith. The people who wrote the Constitution believed in God. They may not have all been Christians, but they all believed in God. To say that they opposed religion is about as wrong as you can get. They opposed official government religions, and laws that limited religious freedom, but they did not oppose religion.

And yes, there are millions of Christians who's faith influences how they vote, but isn't that the point of democracy? In a democracy you don't impose the views of a minority on the majority that thinks differently. People will vote according to what they think is right, and that's how democracy works. If the people support Christianity, you can't just say "nope, I don't care what you all think, I'm going to say you can't have what you want, and we're going to do things my way."

As for this particular story, I think the school should do something for the kids who don't go to this bible study thing, but I don't think there's a problem with offering it. And I also have to wonder, did the kid really have a problem with the bible study, or did his mom just insist that he not go, and she's the one that's offended?
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:09 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Benign Despot on 10-18-2006 at 04:55 PM
Whenever I read a story like this I want to ask the "religious" folks the following question.

"If you were a Christian, living in say Iran, and the Mullah said that the Koran would be taught in public school regardless of how you felt about it would you think that was fair or not?"
While I can't speak for anyone else, I'd have no problem with it. FWIW, I pay some significant money each year to send my son to a Catholic school instead of the public schools, and trust me, I'm not Catholic, (and since I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest with anyone who might be Catholic, I won't list the problems I have with the Catholic religion).

From my point of view, the people whining about the possibilty of themselves (or their kids) exposed to some religious speech, are the intolerant ones. That being said, I'd have no problem with Congress actually getting a set, and dealing with this whole issue and pass a law stating if we have "Separation of Church and State", and of course define what that actually means. Of course, as long as they ignore the whole issue, the court can make up whatever they want, and get away with it.
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:15 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alcoholic9 on 10-18-2006 at 02:10 PM
Just like the tobacco companies....

"Get em while they're young and don't know any better." ;)

...which is why Mass schools pound the kids with Darwinism and communism as soon as kindergarten!
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:18 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by aloyouis on 10-18-2006 at 08:15 PM
...which is why Mass schools pound the kids with Darwinism and communism as soon as kindergarten!
Well at least those things don't involve invisible beings that live in the sky or whatever.
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Same as the '72 Dolphins. Now, it has become a tired and silly ritual through the years watching these graying and balding men gather each year to pop champagne corks whenever the last unbeaten team falls, and that sad clinging to the past diminishes what they did, and it if there is one thing even Pats-haters can agree on, it's this: a 19-0 Pats team makes that annual ritual disappear, mercifully, forever.

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Old 10-18-2006, 07:39 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alcoholic9 on 10-18-2006 at 03:11 PM
Umm.... religion has caused more violence and suffering than all wars combined and multiplied by like 1000.
A9....I guess if you make me I can do the research to defend what I am about to say but that statement up above is completely ridiculous.

Oh wait......you mean to include thousands of years ago? Not relevant. With the exception of Radical Muslims, what religion causes so much suffering today? Indeed it is the radical leftists of the world that have done by far the MOST damage,carnage and murder........




Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69) 49,000,000 ("great leap forward" and "cultural revolution")
Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1934-39) 13,000,000 (the purges)
Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) 12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians WWII)
Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44) 5,000,000 (civilians WWII)
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000
Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94) 1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78) 1,500,000
Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915) 1,200,000 Armenians
Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970) 1,000,000
Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982) 900,000
Jean Kambanda (Rwanda, 1994) 800,000
Suharto (East Timor, 1976-98) 600,000
Saddam Hussein (Iran 1980-1990 and Kurdistan 1987-88) 600,000
Yahya Khan (Pakistan, 1971) vs Bangladesh 500,000
Fumimaro Konoe (Japan, 1937-39) 500,000? (Chinese civilians)
Savimbi (Angola, 1975-2002) 400,000
Mullah Omar - Taliban (Afghanistan, 1986-2001) 400,000
Idi Amin (Uganda, 1969-1979) 300,000
Benito Mussolini (Ethiopia, 1936; Yugoslavia, WWII) 300,000
Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire, 1965-97) ?
Charles Taylor (Liberia, 1989-1996) 220,000
Foday Sankoh (Sierra Leone, 1991-2000) 200,000
Slobodan Milosevic (Yugoslavia, 1992-96) 180,000
Michel Micombero (Burundi, 1972) 150,000
Hassan Turabi (Sudan, 1989-1999) 100,000
Jean-Bedel Bokassa (Centrafrica, 1966-79) ?
Richard Nixon (Vietnam, 1969-1974) 70,000 (vietnamese civilians)
Efrain Rios Montt (Guatemala, 1982-83) 70,000
Papa Doc Duvalier (Haiti, 1957-71) 60,000
Hissene Habre (Chad, 1982-1990) 40,000
Chiang Kai-shek (Taiwan, 1947) 30,000 (popular uprising)
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 (dissidents executed)
Francisco Franco (Spain) 30,000 (dissidents executed after the civil war)





Thats over 92 million people!!!! And that's just the last 100 years or so......


Indeed, it is religion that that sponsers much of the good that is done in the world today.

Of course, the ACLU is doing it's socialist best to wipe out religion in our country. A country founded on religion by men of religion.
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:42 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by cka203 on 10-18-2006 at 02:56 PM
Let's spice this up a bit...

I'm not saying it's 100% applicable in all cases, but I do think there's a direct correlation between the removal of anything remotely religious from school, and the increase in violence in school, and kids behaviour in general.

I'm only 46, but when I was in school, it was no big deal to sing Christmas songs, etc. We even had Easter egg hunts, Halloween parties, etc. We didn't have to worry about being sued if we said the word God or prayer on school property.

And we also didn't have NEAR the drug problem we do today. We didn't have gangs. We didn't have to worry about school shootings.

I'm just saying...
Well Spice you want then spice you'll get. I grew up in Southern NH and attended a private Catholic school grades 1-8. When I attended my first day at the public high school I was amazed at what those kids got away with. At the Catholic school you got a smack up aside the head for just about any infraction from disobedience to not completeing an assignment or not doing your home work to forgetting to wear a tie to school. Those old cranky Nuns grabbed you by the hair or the ears even by the cheeks and they did this in front of the entire class. Its a wonder I'm not traumatized and even able to function in everyday life! lol I saw a marked difference in violence between the private school and the catholic school with the catholic school being more violent than any public school I've attended. With both parents having attended the same Catholic school I learned very quick that if you got a beating from a Nun that you never ever complain about it to mom or dad. Their theory was if the Nun hit you you did something wrong and you'd get another dose of punishment at home. I often wonder why a student hasn't gone back to that school with an assult rifle and arrainged for those frustrated old nuns to meet their maker. Less violence? Not in the Catholic school I was sentenced to for 8 miserable years. St Josephs School this ones for YOU
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:43 PM   #39
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Demanding prayer in school is simply another shirking of parental responsibilities, in my opinion.

Where does the story say that prayer is demanded of the students?
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:46 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by aloyouis on 10-18-2006 at 08:43 PM
Demanding prayer in school is simply another shirking of parental responsibilities, in my opinion.

Where does the story say that prayer is demanded of the students?
I don't mean demanded of the students. I mean demanding that we have it. Demanding that we have school-led prayer functions, and blaming the decay of America on the absence of prayer in the schools, yadda, yadda, yadda. It's a cop out.

Believe me, living in the Bible belt, you hear those words a lot.
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:58 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by aloyouis on 10-18-2006 at 08:39 PM
A9....I guess if you make me I can do the research to defend what I am about to say but that statement up above is completely ridiculous.

Oh wait......you mean to include thousands of years ago? Not relevant. With the exception of Radical Muslims, what religion causes so much suffering today? Indeed it is the radical leftists of the world that have done by far the MOST damage,carnage and murder........




Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69) 49,000,000 ("great leap forward" and "cultural revolution")
Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1934-39) 13,000,000 (the purges)
Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) 12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians WWII)
Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44) 5,000,000 (civilians WWII)
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000
Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94) 1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78) 1,500,000
Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915) 1,200,000 Armenians
Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970) 1,000,000
Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982) 900,000
Jean Kambanda (Rwanda, 1994) 800,000
Suharto (East Timor, 1976-98) 600,000
Saddam Hussein (Iran 1980-1990 and Kurdistan 1987-88) 600,000
Yahya Khan (Pakistan, 1971) vs Bangladesh 500,000
Fumimaro Konoe (Japan, 1937-39) 500,000? (Chinese civilians)
Savimbi (Angola, 1975-2002) 400,000
Mullah Omar - Taliban (Afghanistan, 1986-2001) 400,000
Idi Amin (Uganda, 1969-1979) 300,000
Benito Mussolini (Ethiopia, 1936; Yugoslavia, WWII) 300,000
Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire, 1965-97) ?
Charles Taylor (Liberia, 1989-1996) 220,000
Foday Sankoh (Sierra Leone, 1991-2000) 200,000
Slobodan Milosevic (Yugoslavia, 1992-96) 180,000
Michel Micombero (Burundi, 1972) 150,000
Hassan Turabi (Sudan, 1989-1999) 100,000
Jean-Bedel Bokassa (Centrafrica, 1966-79) ?
Richard Nixon (Vietnam, 1969-1974) 70,000 (vietnamese civilians)
Efrain Rios Montt (Guatemala, 1982-83) 70,000
Papa Doc Duvalier (Haiti, 1957-71) 60,000
Hissene Habre (Chad, 1982-1990) 40,000
Chiang Kai-shek (Taiwan, 1947) 30,000 (popular uprising)
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 (dissidents executed)
Francisco Franco (Spain) 30,000 (dissidents executed after the civil war)





Thats over 92 million people!!!! And that's just the last 100 years or so......


Indeed, it is religion that that sponsers much of the good that is done in the world today.

Of course, the ACLU is doing it's socialist best to wipe out religion in our country. A country founded on religion by men of religion.
Why doesn't thousands of years ago apply?

Anyway how does Hitler not count? Watch some history channel and you will see he pretty much wanted to create a new religion with him as the Messiah. I believe he even refered to some of his closest people as apostles from time to time. This is whithout even bringing up his extermination campaign against the Jews. Stalin was also not a big fan of the Jews.

Regardless, the Crusades, Catholic/Protestant fighting, etc. was not thousands of years ago. Should we throw out everything except the last hundred years or so?

Go check out a lot of the African fighting/genocides that have occured lately. Much of it is religious.

Bosnia ring a bell?

I won't even bring up 9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq.

I stand by my statement. Without religion a lot more people would be alive/had lived than the rest of our petty conflicts as humans have ever caused.

Who knows how far the Muslim extremist thing will go, it could potentially wipe out life on earth.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
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Same as the '72 Dolphins. Now, it has become a tired and silly ritual through the years watching these graying and balding men gather each year to pop champagne corks whenever the last unbeaten team falls, and that sad clinging to the past diminishes what they did, and it if there is one thing even Pats-haters can agree on, it's this: a 19-0 Pats team makes that annual ritual disappear, mercifully, forever.

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Old 10-18-2006, 08:27 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by aloyouis on 10-18-2006 at 08:39 PM
A country founded on religion by men of religion.
That's totally wrong. What are you even talking about?

Founded on religion? Nonsense.

Though some puritans did leave England because of the church, well, you'll notice that there were already people here.

(Also, though they were really after gold, many of the Europeans who came to America when it was first being explored only got funding if they agreed to 'force' the native people to accept Jesus as their god. No one knows how many native Americans died, but it is most likely 10s of millions)

But as far as the founding of America, it had nothing to do with religion.
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Old 10-18-2006, 08:28 PM   #43
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Oh yeah, and Hitler was a Christian, by the way. And yeah, he used the whole 'Jews killed god' thing to help his cause.
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Old 10-18-2006, 09:49 PM   #44
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Same as the '72 Dolphins. Now, it has become a tired and silly ritual through the years watching these graying and balding men gather each year to pop champagne corks whenever the last unbeaten team falls, and that sad clinging to the past diminishes what they did, and it if there is one thing even Pats-haters can agree on, it's this: a 19-0 Pats team makes that annual ritual disappear, mercifully, forever.

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Old 10-18-2006, 10:13 PM   #45
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Can someone tell me 1 religion that promotes killing people? I don't mean people who claimed to be part of the religion, I mean find me examples from religious texts that say "go out and kill people". Most, if not all "holy wars" or whatever you want to call them are just examples of someone with power using and twisting and perverting religion to try to back up his desire to commit genocide. Religion is just usefull for those purposes because it's something people feel strongly about. If religion didn't exist, there would be just as much killing, if not more, because the dictators and power hungry bastards of the world would just find some other cause/belief/ideology to use to trick people into carrying out their plans.
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