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Old 12-03-2018, 06:21 PM   #3901
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Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
I think that "disloyalty" to Trump equates to treason.
Yea and that is absolute bullshit argument.

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Old 12-03-2018, 06:23 PM   #3902
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Originally Posted by johnlocke View Post
Yea and that is absolute bullshit argument.

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Old 12-03-2018, 06:38 PM   #3903
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Originally Posted by PatsFan09 View Post

Donald Trump IS the biggest douchnozzle to have ever held the presidency.

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After watching the dignity and respect afforded to President H.W., the processional, the tributes to a true American patriot today as he was brought to lie in State, all I could think of is not one of the words spoken could be used for the current man inhabiting our house. Not one. Nor should they be. He's as un-American a person as I've ever seen, who has no dignity, no respect for anyone, and is a fraud.

He will hopefully never be placed in that Rotunda. And if he is, there will be nobody there to speak for him, other than Hannity and Carlson.

---------- Post added at 06:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlocke View Post
Yea and that is absolute bullshit argument.

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Well, in trump's eyes it does.

Plus, it wasn't an argument.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:58 PM   #3904
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Originally Posted by PatsFanLisa View Post
After watching the dignity and respect afforded to President H.W., the processional, the tributes to a true American patriot today as he was brought to lie in State, all I could think of is not one of the words spoken could be used for the current man inhabiting our house. Not one. Nor should they be. He's as un-American a person as I've ever seen, who has no dignity, no respect for anyone, and is a fraud.

He will hopefully never be placed in that Rotunda. And if he is, there will be nobody there to speak for him, other than Hannity and Carlson.

---------- Post added at 06:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 PM ----------



Quote:
The man more focused on what he is against than on what he is for, more passionate in his hates than in his loves, is a man surrendering achievement for destruction, responsibility for excuse, a courageous pursuit of life for an embittered railing against death.
Well, in trump's eyes it does.

Plus, it wasn't an argument.
I have often wanted to ask you what you are for?
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:15 PM   #3905
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Just reminding you all that Donald Trump IS the President of The United States.
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:30 PM   #3906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlocke View Post

I have often wanted to ask you what you are for?
Fiscal conservatism and social liberalism.

---------- Post added at 07:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by subroc View Post
Just reminding you all that Donald Trump IS the President of The United States.
Again, What is your pointless point?
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Old 12-03-2018, 08:32 PM   #3907
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President Donald John Trump getting things done.

Quote:
Liz Peek: Trump scores big wins at the G-20
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Old 12-03-2018, 08:48 PM   #3908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsFanLisa View Post
Fiscal conservatism and social liberalism.[COLOR="Silver"]
I think that's a fair assessment, but in many cases those two run @ odds with one another. IMHO, and this is based solely on your posts, I would say your fiscal conservatism takes a bake seat to your social liberalism much more often than not.

Like you I am a fiscal conservative, yet I break down the social issue part into many categories (morality based social issues, identity based social issues and social issues revolving around the redistribution of wealth ie; social safety net).

As far as morality based social issues I am a left leaning centrist. I support gay marriage and adoption, I support an end to the death penalty, I support prison/sentencing reforms.

As far as the identity based social issues I am a conservative leaning centrist. I recognize many of the issues and feel they need addressed, but I won't go so far as kids sharing public bathrooms with adults of the opposite gender or which pronouns to use for what an individual identifies as. And I cannot get behind minority quotas in hiring or college admissions primarily because I don't believe you can fight discrimination by making discriminatory hiring and admissions decisions.

As for our social safety nets I am firmly conservative, but pragmatic @ the same time. While I lament their (im)practical application I am also acutely aware they aren't going away and @ best we can only hope to rein them in a bit and maybe take a look @ better ways. I mean, we are already spending the money, can we focus a bit more of it on vocational retraining to help people find better paying jobs, and maybe child care credits/after school programs to assist low income or single parents work to better their lot in life? We spend nearly 12k annually per student for K-12 education, on par or more than most annual instate tuition @ public universities. Can we get more vocational bang for our buck here? I truly think we can, and if we aren't we should be.
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:04 AM   #3909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IU_Knightmare View Post
I think that's a fair assessment, but in many cases those two run @ odds with one another. IMHO, and this is based solely on your posts, I would say your fiscal conservatism takes a bake seat to your social liberalism much more often than not.

Like you I am a fiscal conservative, yet I break down the social issue part into many categories (morality based social issues, identity based social issues and social issues revolving around the redistribution of wealth ie; social safety net).

As far as morality based social issues I am a left leaning centrist. I support gay marriage and adoption, I support an end to the death penalty, I support prison/sentencing reforms.

As far as the identity based social issues I am a conservative leaning centrist. I recognize many of the issues and feel they need addressed, but I won't go so far as kids sharing public bathrooms with adults of the opposite gender or which pronouns to use for what an individual identifies as. And I cannot get behind minority quotas in hiring or college admissions primarily because I don't believe you can fight discrimination by making discriminatory hiring and admissions decisions.

As for our social safety nets I am firmly conservative, but pragmatic @ the same time. While I lament their (im)practical application I am also acutely aware they aren't going away and @ best we can only hope to rein them in a bit and maybe take a look @ better ways. I mean, we are already spending the money, can we focus a bit more of it on vocational retraining to help people find better paying jobs, and maybe child care credits/after school programs to assist low income or single parents work to better their lot in life? We spend nearly 12k annually per student for K-12 education, on par or more than most annual instate tuition @ public universities. Can we get more vocational bang for our buck here? I truly think we can, and if we aren't we should be.
Excellent post.
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Old 12-04-2018, 01:24 PM   #3910
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So another cover-up by the President of the United States Donald John Trump is exposed today.

While he attempted to hide Gina Haspel/CIA's findings from our congressional lawmakers about MBS's murder of Khashoggi, she did brief them today on the findings.

Sen. Corker said the Saudi crown prince would be convicted of murder witin 30 minutes if he was put on trial for Khashoggi's death.

Sen. Graham says he will not support further arms sales to SA while MBS is still in charge.

Sen. Kennedy: the Saudi crown prince "really was the original El Chapo."

But our Dear Leader says, well, we don't know one way or the other for sure.

$$$$$$$ - and not for us, for him and his son-in-law.
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Old 12-04-2018, 01:36 PM   #3911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsFanLisa View Post
So another cover-up by the President of the United States Donald John Trump is exposed today.

While he attempted to hide Gina Haspel/CIA's findings from our congressional lawmakers about MBS's murder of Khashoggi, she did brief them today on the findings.

Sen. Corker said the Saudi crown prince would be convicted of murder witin 30 minutes if he was put on trial for Khashoggi's death.

Sen. Graham says he will not support further arms sales to SA while MBS is still in charge.

Sen. Kennedy: the Saudi crown prince "really was the original El Chapo."

But our Dear Leader says, well, we don't know one way or the other for sure.

$$$$$$$ - and not for us, for him and his son-in-law.
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Old 12-04-2018, 01:44 PM   #3912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IU_Knightmare View Post
I think that's a fair assessment, but in many cases those two run @ odds with one another. IMHO, and this is based solely on your posts, I would say your fiscal conservatism takes a bake seat to your social liberalism much more often than not.
I really did want to respond, but I haven't much time.

There is no fiscal conservatism right now, so that's pretty much a dead issue for me. This administration is pissing away money in ridiculous amounts, increasing the deficit ad infinitum, and not doing what any fiscal conservative could applaud.

Quote:
Like you I am a fiscal conservative, yet I break down the social issue part into many categories (morality based social issues, identity based social issues and social issues revolving around the redistribution of wealth ie; social safety net).

As far as morality based social issues I am a left leaning centrist. I support gay marriage and adoption, I support an end to the death penalty, I support prison/sentencing reforms.
As do I, though I must include a woman's right to make decisions for herself with no interference because of someone else's religious beliefs.

Quote:
As far as the identity based social issues I am a conservative leaning centrist. I recognize many of the issues and feel they need addressed, but I won't go so far as kids sharing public bathrooms with adults of the opposite gender or which pronouns to use for what an individual identifies as. And I cannot get behind minority quotas in hiring or college admissions primarily because I don't believe you can fight discrimination by making discriminatory hiring and admissions decisions.
Agreed on the sharing of bathrooms, unless a person has absolutely transitioned into the opposite gender. I'm not quite sure I understand some of the name tokens people have taken up, such as pansexual, et al. Yet, I believe they have the right to identify however they choose.

I am up in the air on quotas or affirmative action programs. I do believe there has been in the past a discrimination against minorities in colleges and workplace areas. I do believe that many minorities do not have the opportunities that the majority have. So there has to be some sort of leveling out, but I'm not sure it should be to the disadvantage of some. I guess I have no real position on this issue. Yet, I'm not willing to say it's a discriminatory practice because of what I stated in the previous two sentences. There is most certainly a disadvantage that needs to be addressed in some way.


Quote:
As for our social safety nets I am firmly conservative, but pragmatic @ the same time. While I lament their (im)practical application I am also acutely aware they aren't going away and @ best we can only hope to rein them in a bit and maybe take a look @ better ways. I mean, we are already spending the money, can we focus a bit more of it on vocational retraining to help people find better paying jobs, and maybe child care credits/after school programs to assist low income or single parents work to better their lot in life? We spend nearly 12k annually per student for K-12 education, on par or more than most annual instate tuition @ public universities. Can we get more vocational bang for our buck here? I truly think we can, and if we aren't we should be.
The problem with vocational retraining to better one's self and assistance with child care/after school to assist low income or single parents is that it's already in place, at least here in Massachusetts. Here's an example of how it works:

A young, single mother is on assistance - housing, food stamps, day care, but she's working for minimum wage, so she needs the assistance. She decides to go to school to become, say, a medical assistant. Good for her. She is able to secure child care, after-school care, food stamps and housing, along with assistance to pay for her education.

Here's the trick. It's not enough for her to survive on, so if she picks up a part-time job when she's done with her classes, that income gets deducted off of what she will receive in assistance. Her housing goes on a scale, so if she earns, say, $600 a month from a part-time job, she now has to contribute to her housing, gets less in food stamps, and has to contribute to the daycare.

So it's a catch-22 for anyone who wants to better themselves. There's no point in working because you're working just to make up what the state or government will no longer contribute while you're trying to raise your child and better yourself by going to school.

As far as any programs such as Social Security, Medicare, etc., we are entitled to those. We paid for them. We loaned the government our hard-earned money. If the government is so irresponsible that it didn't preserve it, they need to figure out what THEY can do without, like their life-long healthcare after they leave office. Right now we're paying millions and millions of dollars to tent 14,000+ immigrant children to private corporations, who have no regulation or accountability, and who you can guarantee our lawmakers have investments in.

I mean, I could go on, but i simply don't have the time. I appreciate your post, though, and wanted to respond in some way.
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Old 12-04-2018, 01:53 PM   #3913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subroc View Post
President Donald John Trump getting things done.


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Like lying about the China trade deal, causing the market to plummet 750 points so far today?

Great job.

But FoxNews...
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Old 12-04-2018, 02:25 PM   #3914
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https://nypost.com/2018/12/01/al-sha...s-own-charity/

Al sharpton sells his life story to national action network for half a million. Oh, he founded and runs NAN and has 2.5 billion in liens from the irs for unpaid taxes. Be interesting to see how much tax fraud manafort had and had a court date and is going to prison potentially but al has not even faced prison yet. If you or I had a mega tax bill and looked like we might not pay it, we would be homeless, and facing prison.
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Old 12-04-2018, 02:29 PM   #3915
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Like lying about the China trade deal, causing the market to plummet 750 points so far today?

Great job.
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