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Old 08-05-2019, 06:53 PM   #2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOldTroll View Post
If we asked ourselves how we got this this point just maybe we would have a chance.
But Pandora's Box has been opened.
Lots of reasons unfortunately......too many.....

IMHO the closing of mental institutions without a firm backup plan started the ball rolling. It was and is a great idea but the implementation stinks and still does. Drugging those into a medicinal lobotomy as opposed to a medical lobotomy neither of which I agree with, but.... the mentally ill on the streets is BS. They deserve better.

Lack of a family unit both parents involved...Im not blaming either parent for that stuff happens. I can not express how important it is for both parents to be involved in a Childs life. Even if both parents are in the household they need to be involved in the upbringing of a child.

And last but not least a moral compass....however you decide to implement it. Setting rules and being a parent not a friend, exposing children to both good and evil ie bad. Let children be children....they need to play and make friends. They need to put down the electronic gadgets. Children need to have unsupervised playtime. They need to fight their own battles and work together by talking and working with each other.

While I personally don't think computer games cause issues.... they certainly don't help. If children don't play and interact with each other in person then problems will occur. I feel the same about structured play...

Life isn't simple by any means. There is no easy answer. What has changed is the question and the answer is neither simple or easy.


but what do I know....

~Dee~

Last edited by deec77; 08-05-2019 at 07:01 PM..
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Old 08-05-2019, 07:07 PM   #2012
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Originally Posted by deec77 View Post
Lots of reasons unfortunately......too many.....

IMHO the closing of mental institutions without a firm backup plan started the ball rolling. It was and is a great idea but the implementation stinks and still does. Drugging those into a medicinal lobotomy as opposed to a medical lobotomy neither of which I agree with, but.... the mentally ill on the streets is BS. They deserve better.

Lack of a family unit both parents involved...Im not blaming either parent for that stuff happens. I can not express how important it is for both parents to be involved in a Childs life. Even if both parents are in the household they need to be involved in the upbringing of a child.

And last but not least a moral compass....however you decide to implement it. Setting rules and being a parent not a friend, exposing children to both good and evil ie bad. Let children be children....they need to play and make friends. they need to pit down the electronic gadgets. Children need to have unsupervised playtime. They need to fight their own battles and work together by talking and working with each other.

while I personally don't think computer games cause ... issues they certainly don't help. if children don't play and interact with each other in person then problems will occur.

but what do I know....

~Dee~
I think with respect to games, it's not just games but glorifying violence in general, movies and TV play a part too.
As far as the outrage goes, there's plenty of people more concerned with using these incidents for political capital than they are with the victims, or with the causes. The gun grabbers especially. The causes are complex and many and the solutions are complex and difficult. Unfortunately banning guns is a very simplistic view that requires little analysis and provides politicians with easy slogans.
The mental health system is badly, badly broken and the criminal justice system needs help. It's important to note that police bear the burden of repeatedly arresting violent people who in many cases are back on the street in a day or two. The courts just let them out and refer them for treatment, and they don't show up. It's not their fault and I can tell you firsthand the frustration police have with trying to get people off the street and keep them there.
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Old 08-05-2019, 07:17 PM   #2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patswin View Post
I think with respect to games, it's not just games but glorifying violence in general, movies and TV play a part too.
As far as the outrage goes, there's plenty of people more concerned with using these incidents for political capital than they are with the victims, or with the causes. The gun grabbers especially. The causes are complex and many and the solutions are complex and difficult. Unfortunately banning guns is a very simplistic view that requires little analysis and provides politicians with easy slogans.
The mental health system is badly, badly broken and the criminal justice system needs help. It's important to note that police bear the burden of repeatedly arresting violent people who in many cases are back on the street in a day or two. The courts just let them out and refer them for treatment, and they don't show up. It's not their fault and I can tell you firsthand the frustration police have with trying to get people off the street and keep them there.
I agree and have expressed the dilemma we put our police and prison system in.

I wish I could give you a better outlook but.... this has been going on for decades in our mental health community unfortunately.

~Dee~
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:21 PM   #2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deec77 View Post
Lots of reasons unfortunately......too many.....

IMHO the closing of mental institutions without a firm backup plan started the ball rolling. It was and is a great idea but the implementation stinks and still does. Drugging those into a medicinal lobotomy as opposed to a medical lobotomy neither of which I agree with, but.... the mentally ill on the streets is BS. They deserve better.

Lack of a family unit both parents involved...Im not blaming either parent for that stuff happens. I can not express how important it is for both parents to be involved in a Childs life. Even if both parents are in the household they need to be involved in the upbringing of a child.

And last but not least a moral compass....however you decide to implement it. Setting rules and being a parent not a friend, exposing children to both good and evil ie bad. Let children be children....they need to play and make friends. They need to put down the electronic gadgets. Children need to have unsupervised playtime. They need to fight their own battles and work together by talking and working with each other.

While I personally don't think computer games cause issues.... they certainly don't help. If children don't play and interact with each other in person then problems will occur. I feel the same about structured play...

Life isn't simple by any means. There is no easy answer. What has changed is the question and the answer is neither simple or easy.


but what do I know....

~Dee~
Awesome.
My opinion our moral compass has been shattered and stomped into the ground.
.
I don't see how to get it back.
I think Hope is still in Panodra's box before lid got shut.
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Old 08-05-2019, 09:10 PM   #2015
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I'm not going to read this whole thread, so just my two cents and I'm probably repeating what someone else has said, but...


What absolutely drives me crazy on this stuff is when someone blames all this on "the easy availability of guns."


This is, frankly, horseshit. There is hardly a time in American history when we didn't have the "easy availability of guns." It's always been like that. In fact, they used to be much "easier" than they are now. in 1960 (for example), you could usually just walk in to a gun store and walk out with a gun on the spot, with no ID or anything else. You just paid for it. They didn't care who you were.


So if anyone wants to argue that the modern so-called "epidemic" of mass shootings is related to gun availability, then I would counter that there's obviously some societal/cultural/public-policy difference between then and now which isn't related at all to how many guns there are in the country and how easy you can get one.
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:22 PM   #2016
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:48 PM   #2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OJ's Glove View Post

So if anyone wants to argue that the modern so-called "epidemic" of mass shootings is related to gun availability, then I would counter that there's obviously some societal/cultural/public-policy difference between then and now which isn't related at all to how many guns there are in the country and how easy you can get one.

I would like to counter that the way we are able to communicate in this thread with such ease is a major influence on what has been happening..Yep this and the friggin libs.

The interweb is evil if you arent ready for it.
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Old 08-06-2019, 03:39 AM   #2018
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Originally Posted by AnOldTroll View Post
The interweb is evil if you arent ready for it.

Or even if you are. Social media is a cesspit.
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Old 08-06-2019, 05:56 AM   #2019
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This is why Liberals will never be trusted to make a good gun law.
If you don’t understand this meme and want semi automatic gun’s banned then you are also part of the problem.
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Old 08-06-2019, 06:34 AM   #2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OJ's Glove View Post
I'm not going to read this whole thread, so just my two cents and I'm probably repeating what someone else has said, but...


What absolutely drives me crazy on this stuff is when someone blames all this on "the easy availability of guns."


This is, frankly, horseshit. There is hardly a time in American history when we didn't have the "easy availability of guns." It's always been like that. In fact, they used to be much "easier" than they are now. in 1960 (for example), you could usually just walk in to a gun store and walk out with a gun on the spot, with no ID or anything else. You just paid for it. They didn't care who you were.


So if anyone wants to argue that the modern so-called "epidemic" of mass shootings is related to gun availability, then I would counter that there's obviously some societal/cultural/public-policy difference between then and now which isn't related at all to how many guns there are in the country and how easy you can get one.
Guns have been in this country longer than we have been a country.

The mass murders are new.

So, by simple deduction, we can state that the availability of guns is not the cause, but something fairly recent that has changed is the cause.l

The one fact that the leftists and media do not want people to realize.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 08-06-2019, 06:50 AM   #2021
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Unlike the NRA which is basically "We will compromise on gun control, and make lots of money by scaring our membership in the process"....

FPC Statement Responding to Demands for More Restrictions on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms in the Wake of Recent Mass Murders

August 5, 2019 – Firearms Policy Coalition (FPC) has issued the following statement in response to demands for more restrictions on human rights and fundamental freedoms in the wake of recent mass murders in Dayton, El Paso, and Gilroy:

We mourn for our fallen brothers and sisters whose lives were cut short or forever changed by acts of immeasurable evil. We grieve for the families, friends, and loved ones who are searching for courage and strength to confront unimaginable pain. And our hearts ache for the communities of Dayton, El Paso, and Gilroy.

Ongoing news coverage, comments by politicians, and billionaire-funded special interests – many of whom are protected by armed security details – have made it clear that these horrible tragedies, like the ones before them, will be abused in the service of their radical political agenda of authoritarianism and paternalism.

It is disingenuous and immoral to ratify and incent evil acts of the very few by responding in kind with broad restrictions on the fundamental human rights of the People that pre-exist government itself. We will not accept this as a means of affecting change in a free society. The loss of human lives will always affect and change us, but they must never be allowed to alter our fundamental principles, freedoms, and commitment to individual liberty.

To be sure, our Constitution and society are at an unprecedented crossroads. Politicians and presidential candidates now openly call for a fundamental transformation of our system of laws: from a constitutional republic of free men and women founded in federalism and individual liberty, to a nation-state of subjects ruled with an iron fist from ivory towers and Washington, D.C.

Protecting the People and their human rights and property from the tyranny of mob rule and capricious political winds is a unique feature of our Republic—one that we fiercely defend even when doing so may be unpopular.

As the Supreme Court accurately observed, “The right to keep and bear arms … is not the only constitutional right that has controversial public safety implications. All of the constitutional provisions that impose restrictions on law enforcement and on the prosecution of crimes fall into the same category.” Thus, our Constitution wisely secures individual liberty against infringement not because freedom is always safe, but because it is not.

In addition to its value in securing our right to keep and bear arms for all lawful purposes, the Second Amendment is “a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed — where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once.”

We believe that gun control remains “one growing front of a still-cold but increasingly bitter war between those who desire a powerful government that has the ability to control its people and those who value freedom and individual liberty.” But an armed and prepared citizenry—the unorganized militia—is the last, and perhaps more and more often the first line of defense between the People and the deranged, evil, and tyrannical.

FPC’s chartered mission is to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and the People’s rights, privileges, and immunities deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition, especially the inalienable, fundamental, and individual right to keep and bear arms. Our commitment to our Republic, to first principles, and to freedom and individual liberty will not waver—no matter the circumstances.

FPC will continue to fight for what is right, to defend and advance our Constitution’s protection of fundamental human rights, even and especially when it is difficult.

To our members, supporters, and Second Amendment advocates throughout the United States, we say this: Steel yourselves and prepare to fight for freedom. History shows that all of us, standing together, can prevail.

Firearms Policy Coalition (www.firearmspolicy.org) is a 501(c)4 grassroots nonprofit organization. FPC’s mission is to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, especially the fundamental, individual Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, advance individual liberty, and restore freedom. Gun owners and Second Amendment supporters can join the FPC Grassroots Army at JoinFPC.org.

https://www.firearmspolicy.org/fpc-s...re-gun-control
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:47 AM   #2022
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This is why Liberals will never be trusted to make a good gun law.
If you don’t understand this meme and want semi automatic gun’s banned then you are also part of the problem.
That is horribly inaccurate. Par the course though
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:01 AM   #2023
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Originally Posted by AnOldTroll View Post
Awesome.

My opinion our moral compass has been shattered and stomped into the ground.

.

I don't see how to get it back.

I think Hope is still in Panodra's box before lid got shut.


Definitely agree.
I almost think that there needs to be a test just to be allowed to use social media.
So, so much hate just spewed online.


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Old 08-06-2019, 09:39 AM   #2024
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O.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that goodO.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that goodO.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that goodO.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that goodO.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that goodO.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that good
O.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that goodO.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that goodO.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that goodO.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that goodO.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that goodO.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that goodO.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that good
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsFan09 View Post
Definitely agree.
I almost think that there needs to be a test just to be allowed to use social media.
So, so much hate just spewed online.


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I say all the time that technology has changed the world in a detrimental manner.
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#FBaltimore: their coach, and their fans too
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:53 AM   #2025
AkPatsFan
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Originally Posted by imapig View Post




This is why Liberals will never be trusted to make a good gun law.
If you don’t understand this meme and want semi automatic gun’s banned then you are also part of the problem.
An AR-15 is not a modified semi-automatic assault weapon, that description doesn't even make sense.
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