>
Patriots Planet - New England Patriots Forums and Message Boards

Home Members List Top Posters Arcade Casino Toolbar
Go Back   Patriots Planet - New England Patriots Forums and Message Boards > The Razor > Politics and Religion Forum
Mark Forums Read rel="nofollow">Mark Forums Read
Register All Albums FAQDonate Calendar

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-13-2017, 09:57 AM   #1
benhamean
Registered User
 
benhamean's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,976
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $496000


benhamean is still looking for a lifebenhamean is still looking for a lifebenhamean is still looking for a life
benhamean is still looking for a lifebenhamean is still looking for a lifebenhamean is still looking for a life
Mike Flynn 'death'watch?

Trump's National Security Adviser has been caught lying about discussing removing sanctions with Russia.

He (presumably) then also lied to Vice President Mike Pence, who repeated the lie publicly- (presumably) embarrassing Pence.

1. Will Trump fire Flynn, or are lies just part of the program?
2. If Flynn is fired, would this be a record for shortest stay by a NSA?

#thebestpeople
#3weeksin
__________________
Man Of Renown
  benhamean is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2017, 01:37 PM   #2
Baron Samedi
Russian Bot 762X54R
 
Baron Samedi's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Framingham
Posts: 27,737
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $459425
My Mood


Baron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that good
Baron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that good
I've been looking and I haven't seen anything but allegations. Was there some official report confirming it?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhamean View Post
Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
Peace, Prosperity, Liberty, Human Rights, Natural Rights, Civil Rights, Property Rights, Sound Money, Free Markets, Sovereignty, the Constitution, the Republic.

Shameless plug for my blog; https://puntyventures.com/
  Baron Samedi is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2017, 01:57 PM   #3
Mark_Henderson
very stable genius
 
Mark_Henderson's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Titletown
Posts: 8,795
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $237750


Mark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets it
Mark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
I've been looking and I haven't seen anything but allegations. Was there some official report confirming it?
Your level of cynicism is remarkably higher compared to when you expounded every day on the various unconfirmed stories about "Killary". I think it was confirmed with like 10 intelligence sources that they have the intercepted the call with Flynn talking with the Russians about removing the sanctions in December.

It would come down to how illegal/prosecutable it is for him to have been communicating with a foreign power at the time, undercutting the policy of the sitting administration. And, more importantly, whether there is any entity in the Republican controlled government that's willing do something about it (there likely isn't).

What's notable is that this is one of the rare times that Trump hasn't called a negative story a lie, and when asked about it, kept quiet. Since you went on about Hillary conspiracies for months, I'll venture that Trump doesn't want to speak out and stir up more investigations into his campaign's communications with the Russians before the election.

I'd predict that Trump will have some kind of dust up/disagreement with Putin for show in the coming weeks, to try to give the impression that he's not in bed with him, which he is.
__________________
"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they are being fooled." -- Mark Twain
  Mark_Henderson is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2017, 03:19 PM   #4
benhamean
Registered User
 
benhamean's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,976
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $496000


benhamean is still looking for a lifebenhamean is still looking for a lifebenhamean is still looking for a life
benhamean is still looking for a lifebenhamean is still looking for a lifebenhamean is still looking for a life
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
I've been looking and I haven't seen anything but allegations. Was there some official report confirming it?
It sounds like it's the revenge of Intelligence types...
(I didn't find the actual report, either, but a transcript would rule)

Quote:
Neither of those assertions is consistent with the fuller account of Flynn’s contacts with Kislyak provided by officials who had access to reports from U.S. intelligence and law enforcement agencies that routinely monitor the communications of Russian diplomats. Nine current and former officials, who were in senior positions at multiple agencies at the time of the calls, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.ab480ae672d3

Most telling is that Flynn went from straight denial of talking about sanctions to the 'I can't remember' stance.
__________________
Man Of Renown
  benhamean is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2017, 03:47 PM   #5
Baron Samedi
Russian Bot 762X54R
 
Baron Samedi's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Framingham
Posts: 27,737
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $459425
My Mood


Baron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that good
Baron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that good
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Henderson View Post
Your level of cynicism is remarkably higher compared to when you expounded every day on the various unconfirmed stories about "Killary". I think it was confirmed with like 10 intelligence sources that they have the intercepted the call with Flynn talking with the Russians about removing the sanctions in December.

It would come down to how illegal/prosecutable it is for him to have been communicating with a foreign power at the time, undercutting the policy of the sitting administration. And, more importantly, whether there is any entity in the Republican controlled government that's willing do something about it (there likely isn't).

What's notable is that this is one of the rare times that Trump hasn't called a negative story a lie, and when asked about it, kept quiet. Since you went on about Hillary conspiracies for months, I'll venture that Trump doesn't want to speak out and stir up more investigations into his campaign's communications with the Russians before the election.

I'd predict that Trump will have some kind of dust up/disagreement with Putin for show in the coming weeks, to try to give the impression that he's not in bed with him, which he is.
Because the Clinton stories are not one offs. There are many suspicious deaths related to the Clintons spanning decades, even from before they got into the White House, and many of the deaths were in one way or another connected to an investigation. They could all be coincidences, but there were a lot of them, and motive was self evident in many of them.

This is a one off, with nothing specific such as a Wikileaks file to corroborate it.

..and I'm not saying it isn't true, I'm just saying that allegations are only allegations. All we know is that he talked to someone, and that's it. Everything beyond that is absent of any evidence.

Someone should be able to produce some evidence of what the conversation was. For all we know they could have been talking about fishing Lake Volstok with alien technology, or the pros and cons of using oatmeal for chocolate chip cookies.

Was there anyone involved in these conversations providing some testimony? Are there emails related to the conversations? Anything at all that could remotely constitute evidence?

If you want to charge him with a crime from a 1799 law, you actually have to produce something besides suspicions and accusations.

All that I have seen is that the FBI investigated communications intercepts between Flynn and the ambassador and found nothing....unless we still believe that the FBI is a Russian spy agency, I guess. I think they are incompetent and corrupt, but I don't think they are captured by Russians.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhamean View Post
Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
Peace, Prosperity, Liberty, Human Rights, Natural Rights, Civil Rights, Property Rights, Sound Money, Free Markets, Sovereignty, the Constitution, the Republic.

Shameless plug for my blog; https://puntyventures.com/
  Baron Samedi is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2017, 05:39 PM   #6
AkPatsFan
Registered User
 
AkPatsFan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Eagle River, Ak
Posts: 5,697
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $1250


AkPatsFan gets a lot of it
AkPatsFan gets a lot of itAkPatsFan gets a lot of itAkPatsFan gets a lot of itAkPatsFan gets a lot of itAkPatsFan gets a lot of itAkPatsFan gets a lot of it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
Because the Clinton stories are not one offs. There are many suspicious deaths related to the Clintons spanning decades, even from before they got into the White House, and many of the deaths were in one way or another connected to an investigation. They could all be coincidences, but there were a lot of them, and motive was self evident in many of them.

This is a one off, with nothing specific such as a Wikileaks file to corroborate it.

..and I'm not saying it isn't true, I'm just saying that allegations are only allegations. All we know is that he talked to someone, and that's it. Everything beyond that is absent of any evidence.

Someone should be able to produce some evidence of what the conversation was. For all we know they could have been talking about fishing Lake Volstok with alien technology, or the pros and cons of using oatmeal for chocolate chip cookies.

Was there anyone involved in these conversations providing some testimony? Are there emails related to the conversations? Anything at all that could remotely constitute evidence?

If you want to charge him with a crime from a 1799 law, you actually have to produce something besides suspicions and accusations.

All that I have seen is that the FBI investigated communications intercepts between Flynn and the ambassador and found nothing....unless we still believe that the FBI is a Russian spy agency, I guess. I think they are incompetent and corrupt, but I don't think they are captured by Russians.
Meanwhile, "if you like your dr, you can keep your dr"..........
  AkPatsFan is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2017, 06:36 PM   #7
benhamean
Registered User
 
benhamean's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,976
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $496000


benhamean is still looking for a lifebenhamean is still looking for a lifebenhamean is still looking for a life
benhamean is still looking for a lifebenhamean is still looking for a lifebenhamean is still looking for a life
Quote:
Originally Posted by AkPatsFan View Post
Meanwhile, "if you like your dr, you can keep your dr"..........
A better equivalence would be Obama saying 'you DID keep your doctor'! Or 'You could have kept your doctor, except for the dishonest so-called courts'!



Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
__________________
Man Of Renown
  benhamean is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2017, 06:37 PM   #8
Jaric
Vae victis
 
Jaric's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Dagobah grow house
Posts: 52,806
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $891587
My Mood


Jaric is a statwhoreJaric is a statwhoreJaric is a statwhoreJaric is a statwhore
Jaric is a statwhoreJaric is a statwhoreJaric is a statwhoreJaric is a statwhoreJaric is a statwhoreJaric is a statwhoreJaric is a statwhoreJaric is a statwhore
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhamean View Post
A better equivalence would be Obama saying 'you DID keep your doctor'! Terrible! Or 'You could have kept your doctor, except for the dishonest so-called courts'! Sad!



Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Fixed
__________________
Do, or do not. There is no try.

Your rep message is blank because my phone won't let me comment. Assume it says "you're awesome"
  Jaric is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2017, 06:55 PM   #9
O_P_T
Why Be Normal
 
O_P_T's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Windsor, CT
Posts: 20,801
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $817375
My Mood


O_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousy
O_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousy
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhamean View Post
It sounds like it's the revenge of Intelligence types...
(I didn't find the actual report, either, but a transcript would rule)


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.ab480ae672d3

Most telling is that Flynn went from straight denial of talking about sanctions to the 'I can't remember' stance.
That article has a variety of comments as to the content of the communications with the Russians.

For example.
Quote:
Flynn’s communications with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak were interpreted by some senior U.S. officials as an inappropriate and potentially illegal signal to the Kremlin that it could expect a reprieve from sanctions that were being imposed by the Obama administration in late December to punish Russia for its alleged interference in the 2016 election.
So is the phrase "interpreted by some" similar to "some people say"?



The mere fact that the word "interpreted" means there is more than one way to view the specifics of the communications.

Maybe he did say those things, but this particular statement doesn't say that.

Then there's this.
Quote:
Officials said this week that the FBI is continuing to examine Flynn’s communications with Kislyak. Several officials emphasized that while sanctions were discussed, they did not see evidence that Flynn had an intent to convey an explicit promise to take action after the inauguration.
OK, that's pretty unambiguous.

Whomever these officials are they don't "interpret" the evidence as promising anything to Russia.

Then there was this.

Quote:
All of those officials said *Flynn’s references to the election-related sanctions were explicit. Two of those officials went further, saying that Flynn urged Russia not to overreact to the penalties being imposed by President Barack Obama, making clear that the two sides would be in position to review the matter after Trump was sworn in as president.

“Kislyak was left with the impression that the sanctions would be revisited at a later time,” said a former official.

A third official put it more bluntly, saying that either Flynn had misled Pence or that Pence misspoke. An administration official stressed that Pence made his comments based on his conversation with Flynn. The sanctions in question have so far remained in place.
So this is contrary to the previous two.

Which one is accurate?



Does this mean that the question should not be investigated?

Not at all, simply that the question is still in doubt and anyone who asserts that it is known what and if Flynn did anything is making a "false claim"

Finally, there is this from the WaPo article.

Quote:
Officials also cited political sensitivities. Prominent Americans in and out of government are so frequently in communication with foreign officials that singling out one individual — particularly one poised for a top White House job — would invite charges of political persecution.

Former U.S. officials also said aggressive enforcement would probably discourage appropriate contact. Michael McFaul, who served as U.S. ambassador to Russia during the Obama administration, said that he was in Moscow meeting with officials in the weeks leading up to Obama’s 2008 election win.

“As a former diplomat and U.S. government official, one needs to be able to have contact with foreigners to do one’s job,” McFaul said. McFaul, a Russia scholar, said he was careful never to signal pending policy changes before Obama took office.
So just how precisely is what Flynn is alleged to have done all that different from what has clearly happened in the past?

I find the suggestion that one can completely avoid signalling "pending policy changes" ludicrous.

The simple fact of the matter is that the topics you do discuss and those you avoid signal what are and are not the priorities for the new administration.

By defintion, that is a matter of policy.
__________________
I AM PATRIOTS

"Some day I want to see them raise up on their piss-soaked hind legs and howl, "Jesus Christ, it's the Goddamned Patriots again and that son-of-a-f*cking-bitch Belichick".
Paraphrasing George S. Patton
  O_P_T is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2017, 07:14 PM   #10
AkPatsFan
Registered User
 
AkPatsFan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Eagle River, Ak
Posts: 5,697
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $1250


AkPatsFan gets a lot of it
AkPatsFan gets a lot of itAkPatsFan gets a lot of itAkPatsFan gets a lot of itAkPatsFan gets a lot of itAkPatsFan gets a lot of itAkPatsFan gets a lot of it
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhamean View Post
A better equivalence would be Obama saying 'you DID keep your doctor'! Or 'You could have kept your doctor, except for the dishonest so-called courts'!



Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
lol
  AkPatsFan is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2017, 07:27 PM   #11
NSPatsFan
I'm disrespectful to dirt.
 
NSPatsFan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: I'm Down From Canada and they think I'm slow Eh?
Posts: 5,890
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $62350
My Mood


NSPatsFan gets itNSPatsFan gets itNSPatsFan gets it
NSPatsFan gets itNSPatsFan gets itNSPatsFan gets itNSPatsFan gets itNSPatsFan gets itNSPatsFan gets itNSPatsFan gets itNSPatsFan gets itNSPatsFan gets itNSPatsFan gets it
Lying is a virtue in any Conservative administration, it's getting caught that gets you canned.
__________________
You know China, you got a lot a... you got a lot a shit there in China. -Bill Belichick
  NSPatsFan is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2017, 11:41 PM   #12
Baron Samedi
Russian Bot 762X54R
 
Baron Samedi's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Framingham
Posts: 27,737
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $459425
My Mood


Baron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that good
Baron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that good
Flynn resigned.

That was quick. I wonder what the pension plan is.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhamean View Post
Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
Peace, Prosperity, Liberty, Human Rights, Natural Rights, Civil Rights, Property Rights, Sound Money, Free Markets, Sovereignty, the Constitution, the Republic.

Shameless plug for my blog; https://puntyventures.com/
  Baron Samedi is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2017, 12:07 AM   #13
Mark_Henderson
very stable genius
 
Mark_Henderson's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Titletown
Posts: 8,795
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $237750


Mark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets it
Mark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets itMark_Henderson gets it
How does he like orange jumpsuits?


<div style="position:relative;height:0;padding-bottom:56.25%"><iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UFBAjhxjQ90?ecver=2" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" style="position:absolute;width:100%;height:100%;left:0" allowfullscreen></iframe></div>
__________________
"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they are being fooled." -- Mark Twain
  Mark_Henderson is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2017, 01:17 AM   #14
benhamean
Registered User
 
benhamean's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,976
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $496000


benhamean is still looking for a lifebenhamean is still looking for a lifebenhamean is still looking for a life
benhamean is still looking for a lifebenhamean is still looking for a lifebenhamean is still looking for a life
The best people!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
__________________
Man Of Renown
  benhamean is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2017, 05:52 AM   #15
Beaglebay
Houndsight is 20/20
 
Beaglebay's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastham, MA
Posts: 25,572
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $3993000
My Mood


Beaglebay has disabled reputation
Enter...Petraeus.
__________________
"It says a lot," a 25-year-old fan reflected, "that the greatest moment in my life is a Week 3 win over New England." I AM PATRIOTS

bay(1/22/15) "The NFL should employ Mona Lisa Vito to calibrate football pressure."
Belichick (1/24/15) “I would not say I’m the Mona Lisa Vito of the football world as she was in the car expertise area.”



taltos
Defense League
  Beaglebay is offline Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Template-Modifications by TMS
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Patriots Planet is not affiliated with the NFL or with the New England Patriots. The views and opinions on this forum do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the owners and/or operators of this forum and website.