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Old 01-08-2008, 04:21 PM   #61
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Don't you EVER get tired of being made a fool out of, D22?

You can't say one thing and then a few hours later, say the complete OPPOSITE of what you said and then expect people to think anything other then:




I certainly think that!!!
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:35 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fully* Tilted* on 01-08-2008 at 03:32 PM
Try and keep your fvcking bullshit straight. You're so goddamn full of it that you can't keep it from coming out both sides of your mouth.
He's not...Im not talking both sides...what bullshit..if you dips ever listened or paid attention to anything ive said...I haven't changed anything...here is a chesklist you can all come back too


The left side of my mouth...

- Yes Brady career averages 7th- QB Rating - 8th first 6 yrs
- Yes Brady had a great #1 passing game in 2007
- Yes Brady has been over rated the past 6 seasons
- Yes Brady is obviously overhyped in media for 6 years
- Yes Brady had the #1 QB Rating in 2007
- Yes Brady had the most TD passes in 2007
- Yes Brady purposely went after the record in 2007
- Yes Brady had the most Pass yds in 2007
- Yes Brady had some unimpressive "Hail Moss" passes in 2007
- Yes Brady had 24 TD passes inside the 10 yd line for record 2007
- Yes Brady couldn't move ball last 7 drives 2nd half against Miami
- Yes Brady struggled against even bad teams under pressure
- Yes Brady lost 11 of 16 games in 05-06 to +.500% teams
- Yes Brady had 4 TDs - 7 INts 3 of his last 4 post season gms
- Yes Brady was worst than T.Dilfer Post season last 2 yrs
- Yes Brady was known as a "Dink & Dunker" his 1st 4 seasons

- No Brady didn't have a single passing record 1st 6 years
- No Brady is not the best QB in NFL. but yes one of them
- No Brady is not best QB of All Time..thats for sure !
- No Brady was never a threat throwing downfield for 4 yrs
- No Brady was not an accurate downfield passer 2001-04
- No Brady can't be considered best with 1 great passing yr
- No Brady is not even close to the Passing QB as Marino
- No Brady not better than Manning until he has multiple #1 seas
- No Brady didn't look better than Favre in 2007

- No Brady will never be the true ICON as Monntanna-Marino & Elway & Kelly etc.....maybe in your eyes & the hyped up media the NFL is marketing ... the QB's I mention earned their respect on the field playing for 17 years injured & battling to be at the top

Brady had it all bought & paid for for in only 3 short years time from Bob Kraft & major preferential support from his $35 Billion dollars in Network contracts promoting his franchise & players.

SWEET !!!!! Isn't it ???.... Maybe ...just maybe all us Non Patriot fans expect just a little more struggle on the field & lot more talent than not having even a 1 single passing record in 6 seasons, and want to see more than only 1 great passing season in Tommy's career before we crown him the "GREATEST OF ALL TIME"...and throw all these QB ICONS under the Bus for "TOM Frigin Brady" this is a pretty impressive list with Bibles of history & records to crown a 1 season passing wonder in such a short career to the head chair of this HOF .


Johnny Unitas
Bart Starr
Joe Montana
Dan Marino
Brett Favre
John Elway
Bob Griese
Peyton Manning
Roger Staubach
Joe Namath
Fran Tarkenton
Terry Bradshaw
Phil Simms
Dan Fouts
Otto Graham
Troy Aikmen
Steve Young
Jim Kelly
Warren Moon
Sammy Baugh
George Blanda
Len Dawson
Sonny Jurgensen
Bobby Layne
Y.A. Tittle
Norm Van Brocklin
Bob Waterfield
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:13 PM   #63
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D22, pretend for a second you are called to testify. Is, in your opinion, Tom Brady the best QB of 2007?

Yes or No.


No justifications or qualifications or explanations. Just answer with a "Yes" or "No". Nothing more, nothing less. In fact, I'll take a "y" or "n". That's it! One keystroke will do. Can you handle it??
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:31 PM   #64
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Feel free to press one keystroke at any time.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:23 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fully* Tilted* on 01-08-2008 at 09:13 PM
D22, pretend for a second you are called to testify. Is, in your opinion, Tom Brady the best QB of 2007?

Yes or No.


No justifications or qualifications or explanations. Just answer with a "Yes" or "No". Nothing more, nothing less. In fact, I'll take a "y" or "n". That's it! One keystroke will do. Can you handle it??
Yes !!!
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:24 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fully* Tilted* on 01-08-2008 at 09:13 PM
D22, pretend for a second you are called to testify. Is, in your opinion, Tom Brady the best QB of 2007?

Yes or No.


No justifications or qualifications or explanations. Just answer with a "Yes" or "No". Nothing more, nothing less. In fact, I'll take a "y" or "n". That's it! One keystroke will do. Can you handle it??
Yes
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:34 PM   #67
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"BUT" of course he had the best passing game of the 2007 season...its all on paper & undisputable & I haven't said otherwise. Read my commebnts about this season & the Patriots passing game...nothing but compliments ...

But am i impressed with all his hail Moss olly oops ..."No"

Am I impressed with 24 Td passes inside the 10 yd line..."No"

Because Tom Brady did everything from throwing TD passes from the 1/2 yard line, the length of your couch on even 1st & 2nd downs "ONLY" to break the TD record impress me...

absolutely not... i do that with my 3 year old nephew in my living room watching TV. And he's pretty good at catching the ball from that distance

Do I think hes the best active QB in the NFL, because the success he had this season..."No" I think hes a great QB though and will always be a top 10 just like Manning-Marino & Montanna

He should never be considered the greatest ever ...especially unless he plays a full career. I don't care if he gets 3 more SB rings
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:00 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dolphin22 on 01-08-2008 at 11:24 PM
Yes
Thanks, in all honesty you confused several people and seemed to contradict yourself.

So, now it's clear that in your opinion, Tom Brady has been the best QB in the NFL in 2007.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:23 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fully* Tilted* on 01-09-2008 at 12:00 AM
Thanks, in all honesty you confused several people and seemed to contradict yourself.

So, now it's clear that in your opinion, Tom Brady has been the best QB in the NFL in 2007.
Yes ... but in my oppinion I thought Favre had great season & did it with alot of young no name players...And manning is the best QB in the NFL & has been the past few years...

Brady has to have more than 1 great passing season to claim that ring...when he does...I'll be right there to bow down to praise him like I do to about 35 other NFL great QB's
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:30 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dolphin22 on 01-08-2008 at 03:00 PM
Everybodies oppinion is just that... you all seem to only respect oppinions when they favor your argument. Whats the truth, he has a close relationship with Montanna ?

Can Rice even make a valid fair argument unless Marino spent 10 years building a bond on the field with him too?

What is ...is.!!!! Stop whining about how great Brady is...try and enjoy what he has done for your franchise & be proud he is even mentioned among the greatest QB's that built this game for him.

Heres how I see it...

Dan Marino

Theres a reason why Marino is noticed in the Hall of Fame as the "The Most Prolific pure Passing QB in History"...because he is...and its not only his records or stats that are responsable for his recognition, ask every single defense that battled him in 17 seasons that had no answer to his passing game because his accuracy & arm were the best the game has ever seen.

Joe Montanna

Wasn't called "The Master" for nothing, he controled the whole game when he was on a field, Nobody could manage a game like Joe M. He brought to the game of football complete organized and precise executed offense like no other offense in the History of football. Unlike Dan Marino passing game, Joe utilized the whole offensive team & had the talent to do it.

John Elway

"Mr. Excitment" if you are in the mood for a great football game, watch the Denver Broncos & John Elway make the most exciting plays you'll ever see a QB pull off, John Elway made things happen when most other QB's would lose yards, take a sack or just throw the ball away on a busted play, John would be making a highlight film for his HOF ceremony..his abilty to move around in the pocket was incredible & he was always a threat running the ball with toughness, Defenses feared him like no other...

My point is no way have I ever even considered saying Marino is better than Montanna, or Elway is better than marino...they are all Icons...and all have brought something great to this game that QB's have built off of.

I have had arguments & discussions about Montanna vs Marino...whos the greatest..& they are both great in there ways..and i will always stick to my argument...

Marino was the greatest passing QB of All Time...But Montanna had other great qualities Marino & Elway didn't have...Elway was more of a threat than both of them with his arm, confidense & running ability...

So why don't you pass the word to Patriot Nation to try real hard & stop disrespecting the greatest QBs, coaches, players & teams just to put the Patriots on top were they certainly don't belong..

as #22 Mercury Morris put it...we will welcome you to our neigborhood when you get their....
The point is that Rice said the 3 QBs that he would have loved to catch passes from are Montana, Brady, and Marino. Those are his words from his radio show.

I believe that speaks volumes. It doesn't really matter who is the best, the fact that he thinks so highly of Brady should tell you that he's probably better than you think. His opinion is valid because Rice played and knows what he sees. It's an expert's opinion and that's the difference.
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Old 01-09-2008, 08:03 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dolphin22 on 01-09-2008 at 12:23 AM
Yes ... but in my oppinion I thought Favre had great season & did it with alot of young no name players...And manning is the best QB in the NFL & has been the past few years...

Brady has to have more than 1 great passing season to claim that ring...when he does...I'll be right there to bow down to praise him like I do to about 35 other NFL great QB's
That's fine. These opinions are not outlandish by any means. Just wanted to clarify where you stood on 2007.
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Old 01-09-2008, 08:22 AM   #72
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I assume D22, that you hate it when Tom Brady gets compared to Joe Montana....

...nonetheless, the comparisons are there because Brady and Montana are similar in their qualities....

...what would Montana have been without Jerry Rice? He still would have been a very good QB, and a winner....but Jerry Rice gave him a weapon that he could use to good effect. Montana wasn't the guy to throw for 400 yards, or launch the ball 40 yards downfield....but he knew how to manage the team, manage the clock, inspired confidence in his teammates, and knew how to win.

And that is the same traits that Brady has. Brady has been bringing a jacknife to a swordfight the last 6 years, and winning with it. This year, in Randy Moss, he has a nice, big sword of his own, and showed what he can do, and what he could have been doing in past years, with enough talent around him....

I think your list of QB's and what they were known for was a good one......BUT.....depending on what characteristics you value in a QB, you CAN say which ones are greater than the rest. It's not just as simple as looking at a list of stats, seeing who passed for more yards, or whatever you pick, and saying "That guy is the best."

Case in point, I think Phil Simms was a great QB. Obviously, you could throw the book at me with 100 QB's with better numbers than him, and I would hold my ground. Simms was a very good QB, on a team that ran first and relied on defense...but he waws smart, tough, and when he was required to could make a tough drive downfield with the clock ticking to win it, if he needed to.
In my book, that made him great.

You understand where I am coming from here? That's why your "look at his numbers" argument meant little to me to begin with....but to discredit his accomplishments now as "Randy's magic" is somewhat insulting. The other QB's you always compared Brady to had superior receiving talent the last 6 years, but you don't consider that until Brady gets superior talent, and then all of a sudden it's all about the receiver....as if ANY quarterback would throw 50 TD's on this team. Would Manning have? Probably. Would Favre have? Maybe, probably not. But if Brady had Marvin Harrison and Co. the last 6 years...it would be HIS passing records that were the mark everyone was chasing in the first place.
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Old 01-09-2008, 08:23 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dolphin22 on 01-09-2008 at 12:23 AM
Yes ... but in my oppinion I thought Favre had great season & did it with alot of young no name players...And manning is the best QB in the NFL & has been the past few years...

Brady has to have more than 1 great passing season to claim that ring...when he does...I'll be right there to bow down to praise him like I do to about 35 other NFL great QB's
I think your overestimating some of the 'great' seasons other qb's have had - if Brady has 5 more average years he will be in the top 10 in most major passing records, and that will be only playing 12 seasons..I realaize thats an 'if' but at 30 it's not unrealaistic..

You are underestimating Brady and overrating some of the greats..
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Old 01-09-2008, 01:14 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by Baron Samedi on 01-09-2008 at 08:22 AM
1] I assume D22, that you hate it when Tom Brady gets compared to Joe Montana....

2] what would Montana have been without Jerry Rice? but Jerry Rice gave him a weapon that he could use to good effect.

3] Brady has been bringing a jacknife to a swordfight the last 6 years, and winning with it.

4] Case in point, I think Phil Simms was a great QB.

5] The other QB's you always compared Brady to had superior receiving talent the last 6 years,

6] as if ANY quarterback would throw 50 TD's on this team. Would Manning have? Probably. Would Favre have? Maybe,

7] probably not. But if Brady had Marvin Harrison and Co. the last 6 years...it would be HIS passing records that were the mark everyone was chasing in the first place.
1] Its not that I hate it "Baren" ... I think everyone should make their own Legacy...not leach off of Legends 17 year great careers

2] Without Rice Montanna would have still won every game he did by utilizing someone elses ability...like Jones or Craig or Clark

3] The Jackknife was Brady's own arm...Manning Palmer & Warners arms were swords...Have you ever thought it might be the other way around..Troy Brown, Givens and Branch all wished they had a more accurate downfield passer like Manning, Warner, Palmer so they could be compared to Rice & Moss but Brady couldn't get the ball to them?

4] If you noticed Simms is on my list...Hes a great QB no doubt or argument here...sold...accurate & a great leader.. you all think I just look at the numbers...thats so not true., but you all ignore them & act like they mean nothing ...and that is definatly not true

5] Have you all ever thought Reggie Wayne & Stokley & Clark are great WR's like T.O. and Moss ?...Harrison is simply a fast speed guy with good hands...Isn't that what Deon Branch was...My point is Manning makes Harrisons with the talent from his arm...This Brady didn't have weapond doesn't cutt it with me...Marino led the league for 17 years with Duper & Clayton just 2 typical average WR's at height & speed & he got them the ball.

6] Tell me what QB's having the time & protection & WR's Brady had this season couldn't have minimum 45 + TD passes ? Eli Manning the 25th in QB rating this year could be MVP with that protection & WR squad...no doubt in my mind...

7] Again you all want to completely forget Brady was horrible & in accurate throwing down field...what don't you all get /// ,,, he didn't hardly play in College because Brien Griese was the #1 then he sat the Bench as a 3rd stringer for the Pats a few years...the fact is he sucked & was a 4 yard passing QB for 4 years...
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Old 01-09-2008, 01:32 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dolphin22 on 01-09-2008 at 01:14 PM

7] Again you all want to completely forget Brady was horrible & in accurate throwing down field...what don't you all get /// ,,, he didn't hardly play in College because Brien Griese was the #1 then he sat the Bench as a 3rd stringer for the Pats a few years...the fact is he sucked & was a 4 yard passing QB for 4 years... [/B]
Brady has gotten better at the long ball every year...

He played 2 full seasons in College and was 20 - 5 as a starter..

He was 3rd string for one season with the Pats, moved to 2nd string in 2001 and then replaced Bledsoe...


Brady played college football for and graduated from the University of Michigan. He was a backup his first two years, while his teammate and future NFL quarterback Brian Griese led the Wolverines to a national championship in 1997. When he enrolled at Michigan, Brady was seventh on the depth chart and had an intense struggle to get some playing time. At one point, Brady hired a sports psychologist to help him cope with frustration and anxiety and even considered transferring, frustrated by what seemed like a lack of opportunity.[8] Brady battled for the first string quarterback position with Drew Henson and ultimately started every game in the 1998 and 1999 seasons under Michigan head coach Lloyd Carr. During his first full year as starter, he set Michigan records for most pass attempts (350) and completions in a season (214).[9] Brady was All-Big Ten (honorable mention) both seasons and team captain his senior year. The Wolverines won 20 of 25 games when he started and shared the Big Ten Conference title in 1998. Brady capped that season off with a win over Arkansas in the Citrus Bowl. In the 1999 season, Brady led Michigan to an overtime win in the Orange Bowl over Alabama, throwing for 369 yards and four touchdowns.
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