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Old 09-21-2005, 11:01 AM   #1
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Global Warming

OK, it's on Mars, but it still happened under Bush's watch, and as far as I can tell he's done nothing to stop it.

Orbiter's Long Life Helps Scientists Track Changes on Mars

New gullies that did not exist in mid-2002 have appeared on a Martian sand dune.

That's just one of the surprising discoveries that have resulted from the extended life of NASA's Mars Global Surveyor, which this month began its ninth year in orbit around Mars. Boulders tumbling down a Martian slope left tracks that weren't there two years ago. New impact craters formed since the 1970s suggest changes to age-estimating models. And for three Mars summers in a row, deposits of frozen carbon dioxide near Mars' south pole have shrunk from the previous year's size, suggesting a climate change in progress.

. . .
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Old 02-07-2006, 10:14 AM   #2
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Could it be that the "Global Warming" we are experiencing has very little to do with man and mostly to do with nature (Solar activity). Some scientists think that we'll be experiencing "Global Cooling" in a few years, once the solar activity starts to decline.

Scientist predicts 'mini Ice Age'

ST. PETERSBURG, Russia, Feb. 7 (UPI) -- A Russian astronomer has predicted that Earth will experience a "mini Ice Age" in the middle of this century, caused by low solar activity.

Khabibullo Abdusamatov of the Pulkovo Astronomic Observatory in St. Petersburg said Monday that temperatures will begin falling six or seven years from now, when global warming caused by increased solar activity in the 20th century reaches its peak, RIA Novosti reported.

The coldest period will occur 15 to 20 years after a major solar output decline between 2035 and 2045, Abdusamatov said.

Dramatic changes in the earth's surface temperatures are an ordinary phenomenon, not an anomaly, he said, and result from variations in the sun's energy output and ultraviolet radiation.

The Northern Hemisphere's most recent cool-down period occurred between 1645 and 1705. The resulting period, known as the Little Ice Age, left canals in the Netherlands frozen solid and forced people in Greenland to abandon their houses to glaciers, the scientist said.
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Old 02-12-2006, 10:42 PM   #3
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It'd be nice if it were true, but I'd rather not take the chance.

Course, Bush and all his cronies don't have to worry about global warming anyway. Once it starts, he and all his rich friends will just buy better air conditioners. It'll only be the other 99% of Earth's population that will have to suffer.

One scientist does not a scientific fact make. Sorry.
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Old 02-13-2006, 09:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by TrueBeliever
One scientist does not a scientific fact make. Sorry.
I don't claim that what this scientist says to be fact. It's just that I also don't take what the opposing side's scientists say as fact either.

If you belive as the stuff that scientists have cooked up about about the history of this planet (with respect to the global climate), there have been numerous changes before man was even around (and plenty more after that as well). What makes you so sure that this climate change is primarily caused by man, especially when it looks like similar things are happening on Mars?

The planet has changed before, and it will change again in the future. IMO, it's silly to think we can keep changes from ever happening again.
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Old 02-15-2006, 11:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by TrueBeliever
It'd be nice if it were true, but I'd rather not take the chance.
Yeah, shouldn't drive a car either, because you chance getting killed in an accident.
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Old 11-16-2006, 02:20 PM   #6
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Global Warming?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...suvjupiter.htm

SUV's On Jupiter?
Are humans responsible for climate change on the outer reaches of the solar system, or is it the sun?

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Thursday, November 16, 2006

Kofi Annan today slammed global warming skeptics as being "out of step" and "out of time," but how will altering human activity halt climate change when the evidence clearly indicates that the sun itself and not SUV's is heating up the entire solar system?

"The U.N. chief lamented "a frightening lack of leadership" in fashioning next steps to reduce global emissions. "Let us start being more politically courageous," he urged the hundreds of delegates from some 180 member nations of the 1992 U.N. climate treaty," reports Forbes.

But how do we square the fact that almost every planet in our solar system is simultaneously undergoing temperature change and volatile weather patterns. Does this not suggest that global warming is a natural cycle as a result of the evolving nature of the sun? Can Al Gore fill me in on this one?


http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...ng_021009.html
- Space.com: Global Warming on Pluto Puzzles Scientists
In what is largely a reversal of an August announcement, astronomers today said Pluto is undergoing global warming in its thin atmosphere even as it moves farther from the Sun on its long, odd-shaped orbit.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...04_red_jr.html
- Space.com: New Storm on Jupiter Hints at Climate Change
The latest images could provide evidence that Jupiter is in the midst of a global change that can modify temperatures by as much as 10 degrees Fahrenheit on different parts of the globe.

http://www.mos.org/cst-archive/article/80/9.html
- Current Science & Technology Center: Global Warming on Mars?
A study of the ice caps on Mars may show that the red planet is experiencing a warming trend. If both Mars and Earth are experiencing global warming, then perhaps there is a larger phenomenon going on in the Solar System that is causing their global climates to change.

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.ph...9-022035-4126r
- United Press International: NASA looks at a monster storm on Saturn
NASA says its Cassini spacecraft has found a hurricane-like storm at Saturn's South Pole, nearly 5,000 miles across -- or two-thirds Earth's diameter.

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/199...runc_sys.shtml
- Science Agogo: Global Warming Detected on Triton
There may not be much industrial pollution on Neptune's largest moon, but things are hotting up nonetheless. "At least since 1989, Triton has been undergoing a period of global warming," confirms astronomer James Elliot, professor of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences at Massachusetts Institute of Technology. "Percentage-wise, it's a very large increase."

http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/092897/study.htm
- Associated Press: Study says sun getting hotter
Solar radiation reaching the Earth is 0.036 percent warmer than it was in 1986, when the current solar cycle was beginning, a researcher reports in a study to be published Friday in the journal Science. The finding is based on an analysis of satellites that measure the temperature of sunlight.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...ixnewstop.html
- London Telegraph: The truth about global warming - it's the Sun that's to blame
Global warming has finally been explained: the Earth is getting hotter because the Sun is burning more brightly than at any time during the past 1,000 years, according to new research.

The simple fact is that throughout the ages the earth has swung wildly between a warm, wet, stable climate, to a cold, dry and windy one - long before the first fossil fuel was burned. The changes we are now witnessing are a walk in the park compared to the battering that our planet has taken in the past.

This is not a defense of the oil cartels or the Neo-Con wreckers, who would have every motivation to ignore global warming whether it is man-made or not.

Nor is it a blanket denial of the fact that the earth is getting very gradually hotter, but how do we reconcile global warming taking place at the farthest reaches of the solar system with the contention that it is caused by human activity? Have our exhaust fumes left earth's atmosphere and slipped through a black hole to Triton?

The assertion that global warming is man made is so oppressively enforced upon popular opinion, especially in Europe, that expressing a scintilla of doubt is akin to holocaust denial in some cases. Such is the insipid brainwashing that has taken place via television, newspapers and exalted talking heads - global warming skeptics are forced to wear the metaphoric yellow star and only discuss their doubts in hushed tones and conciliatory frameworks, or be cat-called, harangued and jeered by an army of do-gooders who righteously believe they are rescuing mother earth by recycling a wine bottle or putting their paper in a separate trash can.

Fearmongering about an imminent climate doomsday also hogs news coverage and important environmental issues like GM food, mad scientist chimera cloning and the usurpation and abuse of corporations like Monsanto flies under the radar.

Global warming is cited as an excuse to meter out further control and surveillance over our daily lives, RFID chips on our trash cans, GPS satellite tacking and taxation by the mile, as well as a global tax at the gas pump.

The extremist wing of the environmentalist movement, characterized by people like Dr. Erik Pianka, advocate the mass culling of humanity via plagues and state sanctioned bio-terrorism, in order to "save" the earth from the disease of humanity. Nazi-like genocial population control measures and the environmental establishment have always held a close alliance.

The orthodox organized religion of global warming and its disastrous consequences for our freedom of speech, freedom of mobility and our right to remain outside of the system, needs to be questioned on the foundational basis that the phenomenon is solar-system wide and it is mainly caused by the natural evolution of the sun and not human activity.
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Old 11-16-2006, 02:38 PM   #7
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I think it all hinges on the rate of change. If it can be shown that all of the planets are changing at rates consistent with each other, then there is probably a good chance that human activity on earth isn't doing enough harm to impact the natural process. If the several planets are all changing at different rates that cannot be explained by a single variable, then human activity cannot be ruled out as a cause of the warming trend on earth.
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Old 11-16-2006, 02:39 PM   #8
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Couldn't it be Bush's fault that the sun has warming cycles?
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Old 11-16-2006, 02:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by dchester on 11-16-2006 at 02:39 PM
Couldn't it be Bush's fault that the sun has warming cycles?
it's the cold space between his head because the heat lamp went out years ago
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Old 11-16-2006, 03:08 PM   #10
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My problem with issues like global warming has always been that we have to put the science before the policy. As of right now there is evidence to show that our planet's temperature is rising, however, we do not know if we are causing it. We also do not know if it is permanent or simply a cycle that our planet is going through temporarily.

What we cannot allow (among other things) is for politicians who have little knowledge of science to go around formulating policy by scaring people into believing something that may or may not be true.
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Old 11-16-2006, 03:12 PM   #11
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I can't decide how I fell about global warming.

On the one hand if the New England climate became the equivalent of say, South Carolina's, then I could extend golf season by 5 months or so, but I'd probably have to give up skiing.

I'm sure that rising sea levels would be bad for a lot of folks but I live close to the water, but about 30 ft above sea level....Can you say waterfront?

I don't know, I'll just have to keep thinking about it.
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Old 11-25-2006, 12:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by BY1401 on 11-16-2006 at 02:38 PM
I think it all hinges on the rate of change. If it can be shown that all of the planets are changing at rates consistent with each other, then there is probably a good chance that human activity on earth isn't doing enough harm to impact the natural process. If the several planets are all changing at different rates that cannot be explained by a single variable, then human activity cannot be ruled out as a cause of the warming trend on earth.
That analysis must include two important factors.

First is the 1/r squared relationship.

The intensity of sunlight drops by that relationship as you move further out from the sun, so one has to factor that into what one would predict for the relative energy delivered to each planet/moon.

The second is the various feedback mechanisms.

Changing the amount of energy deleivered to any planet/moon will change something about the object.

Does this change act as a positive or negative feedback, that is does the change make it warmer or cooler.

Take one simple example, water vapor on Earth.

Warmer air will evaporate more water into the atmosphere.

This can have both a positive and negative feedback effect.

Water vapor is the dominant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere and is resposible for the vast majority of the "insulation" effect.

That's a positive feedback.

Water vapor also forms clouds, and clouds can reflect sunlight back into space before it heats the planet. That's a negative feedback effect.

Which one dominates?

That's the $64,000 question, and the real answer is that no one actually knows for sure.

The scientists don't fully understand this, and many other interactions and feedbacks invovled in climate, and simply use fudge factors to describe them in their computer models.

However, there is no doubt that the Sun is delivering more energy to the Solar System now than for quite a long time as this report clearly shows
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Old 11-25-2006, 03:37 PM   #13
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Yes, there's certainly evidence that the Sun is warmer, since the Mars orbiter has detected that the polar caps on Mars are shrinking. I started a thread about that maybe a year ago.

http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/sho...threadid=12759
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Old 12-14-2006, 10:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by spiderman on 11-16-2006 at 02:08 PM
What we cannot allow (among other things) is for politicians who have little knowledge of science to go around formulating policy by scaring people into believing something that may or may not be true.
But we CAN allow politicians who have little knowledge of medicine and who were shown a 30-second video clip to tell a guy in Florida that he must keep his wife alive even though she's in a vegetative state.
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Old 12-15-2006, 12:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by TrueBeliever on 12-14-2006 at 10:33 PM
But we CAN allow politicians who have little knowledge of medicine and who were shown a 30-second video clip to tell a guy in Florida that he must keep his wife alive even though she's in a vegetative state.
Oh yeah... well what about Social Security...
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