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Old 06-01-2017, 09:11 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
I can only assume that I wasn't clear with my description of the "oppressor/oppressed" perspective if you think that link is germane.

The perspective is not based on if an individual is or is not "oppressing", but if a group has been "oppressed" or has been an "oppressor".

Let's take a perfect example.

The Henry Louis Gates kerfuffle.

The entire basis of the claim of discrimination, by those who believe that occurred, has not so much to do with the details of the incident, but the historical treatment of blacks by whites.

In other words the historical "oppression" by the "oppressors".

If one accepts that the "oppressor/oppressed" perspective is correct, then it logically follows that the fact that Gates was black is a significant factor in what occurred.

Not only in the citizen calling 911 to begin with, but with Gates arrest.

If one does not, then one simply sees that a citizen seeing people apparently breaking into a house and calling 911 as reasonable, especially since it isn't clear if they knew who was forcing the door open, and the arrest an outcome of the heated interaction between Gates and Crowley. One gives shit to a cop, one risks getting arrested.

One only has to invert things to prove the significance of the "oppressor/oppressed" perspective.

Assume the same sequence of events occurred, but the races were reversed: The person was white and the cop was black.

What would be the reaction of the two sides?

Would a liberal still think it was racially based?

I doubt it. Some might, but I think the vast majority wouldn't.

Would a conservative think it was racially based?

I doubt it. Some might, but I think the vast majority wouldn't.

So how would you explain such a difference if it isn't the "oppressor/oppressed" perspective?

Yet again, I'm not being critical of having the "oppressor/oppressed" perspective.

By definition, it is a value judgement.

What criteria do you rank above others? As such, it is not a question that can be logically debated.

To use a poor analogy, it's like asking if someone likes meat or seafood better. They are a matter of taste and if person A likes meat more than seafood, and person B likes seafood more than meat, then that's what they both believe and it simply isn't possible to "prove" which one is better in any sort of absolute sense.

I think it's pretty clear that Liberals and Conservatives most certainly rank the importance of various criteria/data differently when they consider any given political or social question.

Such rankings are a meat/seafood type question.

I'm simply suggesting that the "oppressor/oppressed" perspective is a functional construct to define what is the basis for that ranking.

I think where the discussion breaks down, is that both sides fail to understand that they are operating with a different set of rankings and subconsciously assume the other side has adopted theirs.

Thus when they assume someone has the same rankings, yet doesn't follow the logic dictated by those rankings, then that suggests there must be some other factor at play to explain their behavior.

The "Stupid or Evil" concept is a common conclusion for that other factor.

So why have I gone on the extended rant?

Simple.

If people can't agree on common terms/definitions, they cannot communicate.

If both sides can accept that they have a different set of rankings for priorities, then they can engage in reasoned debate and simply agree to disagree if their priorities dictate that they cannot reach an agreement.

There's nothing wrong with that.

If someone insists that their priorities must be used, then there is little hope for reasoned debate.
I agree.

My point was that everyone (even white Christian billionaires in control of everything can (and do)) play the oppression card these days. I just posted that link for the headline- there are hundreds more. WAAH! I disagree and so am oppressed!

So, yup, reasoned debate is definitely a victim.
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Old 06-01-2017, 10:51 AM   #32
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"I'm not getting everything I want, I am oppressed!"

Let me go put on a vagina hat and march down the street.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
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Old 06-01-2017, 11:14 AM   #33
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I've spoken with the powers that be and must inform you that you are having five (5) internet points and forty (40) man points deducted for using the bolded word not in a fashion that demeaned someone else.

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Thanks, T-Mack. OPT sent me looking that word up, and that just confused me more.

I think I've got it, though....."cisgender" is what we used to call "gender", kind of like "organic food" is what we used to call "food" because it was all organic.
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"Cis-gender" means "not a tranny." Just like "person of color" means "not a white person."
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Old 06-01-2017, 11:49 AM   #34
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I agree.

My point was that everyone (even white Christian billionaires in control of everything can (and do)) play the oppression card these days. I just posted that link for the headline- there are hundreds more. WAAH! I disagree and so am oppressed!

So, yup, reasoned debate is definitely a victim.
Again, I don't think you understand what I said.

I am not talking about someone claiming to be "oppressed".

I am talking about if someone views a group as being "historically oppressed" or being "historically an oppressor" and how that perception affects their view of any interaction between a member of one group with a member of the other group.
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Old 06-01-2017, 11:55 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
Again, I don't think you understand what I said.

I am not talking about someone claiming to be "oppressed".

I am talking about if someone views a group as being "historically oppressed" or being "historically an oppressor" and how that perception affects their view of any interaction between a member of one group with a member of the other group.
I'm old enough to remember when judging a person by their race or gender was considered a bad thing.

Thank God the Democrats put a stop to that nonsense...
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:18 PM   #36
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The Griffin thing was being discussed on a radio show I was listening to yesterday, and one caller brought up a good point. The people to whom she should apologize are the Trumps, not us. Maybe she did apologize to them by now but if not, she should (if she is going to apologize at all, that is).
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"That number doesn't mean anything."


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Old 06-01-2017, 12:21 PM   #37
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The Griffin thing was being discussed on a radio show I was listening to yesterday, and one caller brought up a good point. The people to whom she should apologize are the Trumps, not us. Maybe she did apologize to them by now but if not, she should (if she is going to apologize at all, that is).
Meh. She.knew what she was doing. I'd rather she just went away rather than give some half assed PR motivated apology.
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:41 PM   #38
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Meh. She.knew what she was doing. I'd rather she just went away rather than give some half assed PR motivated apology.
I honestly think that these entertainer types DON'T fully see what they are doing. They have been so cocooned and reinforced in their beliefs by their audience and the denizens of their profession that they think it's just fun and normal.
After all, there are Rs who fear coming out in hollywood, etc. because they get blackballed. In a powerful cult, all you have to worry about is the cult's opinion.
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"That number doesn't mean anything."


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Old 06-01-2017, 03:04 PM   #39
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She's getting tons of backlash over is from both sides but yeah, if a conservative would have done something like this when Obama was in office, this country would have burned.


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You mean someone like Ted Nugent? Two wrongs don't make a right but yeah...
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Old 06-01-2017, 03:25 PM   #40
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I honestly think that these entertainer types DON'T fully see what they are doing. They have been so cocooned and reinforced in their beliefs by their audience and the denizens of their profession that they think it's just fun and normal.
After all, there are Rs who fear coming out in hollywood, etc. because they get blackballed. In a powerful cult, all you have to worry about is the cult's opinion.
Nah she knew, there's some audio that was released with her telling the photographer something to the effect of "we're going to get in trouble for this."

Again, she's a talentless D-list celebrity who wanted to get attention. No more, no less
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Old 06-01-2017, 04:43 PM   #41
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You mean someone like Ted Nugent? Two wrongs don't make a right but yeah...
Did Uncle Ted hold a fake bloody head of Obama for all to see? What did he do exactly that warrants his comparison to Griffin? And I ask this because I have no idea what you're referring to.
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Old 06-01-2017, 05:05 PM   #42
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Did Uncle Ted hold a fake bloody head of Obama for all to see? What did he do exactly that warrants his comparison to Griffin? And I ask this because I have no idea what you're referring to.
I forget the exact context but it ended with him saying Obama could "suck on his machine gun".

Obviously not the exact same scenario as Griffin, but also some obvious parallels.

Edit:. Here's a link of Ted discussing the Griffin comparison.

http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know...-kathy-griffin

For the record, I think Ted doth protest too much on this issue.
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Old 06-01-2017, 05:17 PM   #43
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So many of these so called celebrities are insulated from reality to an extreme. They are so accustomed to the incivility and rudeness and lack of class from those they associate with that it comes as a tremendous shock when they find there is a limit to their actions. I think there's many of them who can't comprehend that there's something called a silent majority, and having your spiel reinforced endlessly by hateful keyboard cowards makes you forget about any boundaries of decency. The internet has a way of magnifying the views of morons. The morons have always been there and the fact that they have a tool to make them more visible does not make them a majority.
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Old 06-01-2017, 05:31 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSanders View Post
I honestly think that these entertainer types DON'T fully see what they are doing. They have been so cocooned and reinforced in their beliefs by their audience and the denizens of their profession that they think it's just fun and normal.
After all, there are Rs who fear coming out in hollywood, etc. because they get blackballed. In a powerful cult, all you have to worry about is the cult's opinion.
Pauline Kael says
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Old 06-02-2017, 08:53 AM   #45
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Kathy Griffin holding a press conference to complain that she is being bullied by the Trump family!

"Earlier this week, Ms. Griffin released a controversial photograph of herself posing with a faux-bloody mask of Donald Trump's face. Ms. Griffin and Ms. Bloom will explain the true motivation behind the image, and respond to the bullying from the Trump family she has endured."







Last edited by Baron Samedi; 06-02-2017 at 09:01 AM..
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
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