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Old 10-19-2006, 09:19 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by Benign Despot on 10-19-2006 at 09:36 AM
Actually Islam is an Abrahamic religion and believes in Adam and Eve. I think there are some minor differences in the details but I could be wrong.
That's a good point. I'd be curious to hear from some of the more religious posters on how they would feel if a version of creationism was taught that wasn't strictly from their religion's "text". If it still stated that God created the first 2 people, is that ok, or does it have to be read write out of their favored scripture?
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Old 10-19-2006, 09:22 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patriots44 on 10-19-2006 at 10:19 AM
That's a good point. I'd be curious to hear from some of the more religious posters on how they would feel if a version of creationism was taught that wasn't strictly from their religion's "text". If it still stated that God created the first 2 people, is that ok, or does it have to be read write out of their favored scripture?
Saying that God created the first 2 people is scripture ;)

(but it would be more accurate to say God created everything .
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:19 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by cka203 on 10-19-2006 at 10:22 AM
Saying that God created the first 2 people is scripture ;)

(but it would be more accurate to say God created everything .
but "who's" scripture? Christian, Muslim, Judism, Old testament, new testament, whatever other religions consider sacred text? Many of these may have similar "accounts", but there are also variations to the story depending on what you are reading.

good point on the "created everything", forgot about that whole universe thing! :p
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:51 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patriots44 on 10-19-2006 at 09:30 AM
One quick note on Darwin (and yes, I heard this on the History Channel ;)

Darwin never said that evolution explains how life started, just how it has changed (evolved). People, usually those who believe in creationism, jump on Darwin as if he's saying there's no god.
Now, I don't know what Darwin did or didn't believe, but the idea that species have evolved seems pretty hard to dispute. How we "started" is. While I don't personally believe in "Adam and Eve", I respect the opinion of those who do.

Maybe this is slightly off topic and a dumb question, but I have to ask. If we evolved from some sort of monkey species, why haven't all species of monkeys evolved? Why just homo-sapiens? Just wondering why evolution isn't universal among all primates? If you can explain why evolution did happen for one group, can you explain why it didn't happen for another.
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Old 10-19-2006, 11:02 AM   #95
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All species ARE evolving, just in different directions. Today's Chimpanzee is different that his proto-chimp ancestor.

The latest theory is that walking upright was the big change that lead to the development of intelligent human primates. There was a really good article on it in National Geographic a month or 2 ago.

The "goal" of natural selection is not higher intelligence, it's survival of the species. If your genetic variation gives you a better chance of surviving AND reproducing (thanks DKM) the trait will be passed on and become more and more prevelent.

For our ancenstors intelligence gave them an advantage, for the chimp or the Apw it may have been better smell, hearing, speed or strength.
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Old 10-19-2006, 11:03 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patriots44 on 10-19-2006 at 10:16 AM
I like that "salmon" story, honestly, it makes a fair point. However, Salmon probably can't spawn in salt water, or some other issue, thus any "smart" salmon that stayed in the ocean couldn't pass on their smart genes (as you correctly stated)....
That is true. Baby salmon would not survive in salt water.

However, I doubt that even that smart salmon is capable of understanding the mechanics of osmoregulation. They have no idea why they head to the streams to spawn...it's simply behavior that has been programmed into them by natural selection.

Personally, I tend to believe that religion has been programmed into human behavior by this same process of natural selection. And that my inability to understand its exact importance may just be due to the limitations of the human brain.

Pretty much every culture on earth practices a form of religion. As different as these religions are, they do seem to have much in common:
- belief in a soul
- belief in a higher being (or beiings) who was reponsible for our creation
- rituals that include costumes, designated holy men, and sacred places

To me, the question of how and why these religions even exist is just as intriguing as the question of wheter God exists.

It just seems that if we had been wasting all this energy on something that doesn't contribute to our survival, humans would dropped this religion stuff around the time we lost our tails.

In any event, the original point of my rambling was a response to Steve-O's point. He knows his kid better than anyone else, and was able to discuss his beliefs in a way that made sense to his kid.

Likewise, I was able to put things in a way that made some sense to my own kid.

The point being that kids are far better off getting this stuff from their parents than from the public schools.

Can I get an amen on that?
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Old 10-19-2006, 11:21 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by dropKickMurphy on 10-19-2006 at 12:03 PM
The point being that kids are far better off getting this stuff from their parents than from the public schools.

Can I get an amen on that?
AMEN.

though I still think a general study on all religions and philosophies, without prejudice to one or the other, would be a good idea.
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Old 10-19-2006, 11:22 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenB on 10-19-2006 at 12:21 PM
AMEN.

though I still think a general study on all religions and philosophies, without prejudice to one or the other, would be a good idea.
AMEN!
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Old 10-19-2006, 11:26 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by grogsox on 10-19-2006 at 11:51 AM
Maybe this is slightly off topic and a dumb question, but I have to ask. If we evolved from some sort of monkey species, why haven't all species of monkeys evolved? Why just homo-sapiens? Just wondering why evolution isn't universal among all primates? If you can explain why evolution did happen for one group, can you explain why it didn't happen for another.
That's a very good question... and would require someone who can explain better then I the theory of evolution.

I'll regurgitate an example I remember from a life science class:
I believe it starts with a genetic mutation in one "animal" that proves beneficial to survival and breeding. I'm not refering to "people evolved from chimps" but a more simple example of maybe why Giraffe's have long necks (having a long neck made it easier to reach a food source others couldn't reach, thus no competition for food). This doesn't mean every leaf-eating animal had to evolve to have a long neck, just that, in this case, it worked for giraffes.
As Giraffes evolved long necks, offspring that genetically had not-so-long necks would face more competition for food, have a harder time surviving, and be less likely to pass their "shorter-neck-genes" on to offspring. (plus the girl giraffes probably like 'em "long" )
The longer the... eh, ?neck?, the more likely to breed, pass on this genetic trait, and have all long necked giraffes.

Now... how did any of these animals, regardless of how they started out and how they have evolved get here.... ???
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Old 10-19-2006, 11:30 AM   #100
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And a big AHMEN to DKM.

Also, I didn't see the much better explanation of evolution before I posted mine. Great explanation by BD on that.
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Old 10-19-2006, 11:32 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by dropKickMurphy on 10-19-2006 at 12:03 PM

Pretty much every culture on earth practices a form of religion. As different as these religions are, they do seem to have much in common:
- belief in a soul
- belief in a higher being (or beiings) who was reponsible for our creation
- rituals that include costumes, designated holy men, and sacred places
I don't know that Buddhism has a belief in a soul, although I really don't know, and I don't know what you mean by "soul" actually. Also don't know if Buddhism has a belief in higher beings. Rituals, I guess they have. Don't really know much about it.

I'm not familiar with the concept of "soul" but I suspect that most religions don't have this, whatever is meant by that.
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Old 10-19-2006, 11:34 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by thomas144 on 10-19-2006 at 12:32 PM
I don't know that Buddhism has a belief in a soul, although I really don't know, and I don't know what you mean by "soul" actually. Also don't know if Buddhism has a belief in higher beings. Rituals, I guess they have. Don't really know much about it.

I'm not familiar with the concept of "soul" but I suspect that most religions don't have this, whatever is meant by that.
Buddhism believes in reincarnation. I guess there'd have to be a soul to go from one body to the next. AFAIK they don't believe in a God like being.
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Old 10-19-2006, 11:37 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by grogsox on 10-19-2006 at 11:51 AM
Maybe this is slightly off topic and a dumb question, but I have to ask. If we evolved from some sort of monkey species, why haven't all species of monkeys evolved? Why just homo-sapiens? Just wondering why evolution isn't universal among all primates? If you can explain why evolution did happen for one group, can you explain why it didn't happen for another.
funny question, I think your confusion is rooted in the idea that things "evolve" into "higher forms", or something.

sure, humans, might be smarter than, for example, jelly fish in some ways, but not if we destroy ourselves, and the planet. that would be pretty dumb.

a million years from now, visitors from outer space might come here and find only cockroaches, and wonder why all lifeforms didn't evolve into a successful species like cockroaches.
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Old 10-19-2006, 11:43 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alcoholic9 on 10-19-2006 at 12:34 PM
Buddhism believes in reincarnation. I guess there'd have to be a soul to go from one body to the next. AFAIK they don't believe in a God like being.
There's a good wikipedia article on "soul" - I think it's interesting the word "soul" as we use it was unknown to Jesus, and does not exist in Hebrew.

Honestly, this isn't a topic I find particularly interesting, however. :-)
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Old 10-19-2006, 11:45 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patriots44 on 10-19-2006 at 09:30 AM
One quick note on Darwin (and yes, I heard this on the History Channel ;)

Darwin never said that evolution explains how life started, just how it has changed (evolved). People, usually those who believe in creationism, jump on Darwin as if he's saying there's no god.
Now, I don't know what Darwin did or didn't believe, but the idea that species have evolved seems pretty hard to dispute. How we "started" is.
That's pretty much how I view the theory of evolution. In no way does it say that God doesn't exist, or that God didn't start the process or perhaps control it. And Creation doesn't really describe how God created life in much detail, so it is entirely possible that Creation describes who created life, and Evolution describes how He did it.
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