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Old 06-20-2019, 06:50 AM   #1711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roberto71 View Post
All over social media. TFB working with Josh Gordan, passing, route running etc.

If we get Gordon back (clearly the Patriots must believe there's a high probability he'll be reinstated by the league), then we could have a potential all Pro Receiving corp on our hands with Gordan and Harry on the outside with Dorsett backing them up and then Jules doing what Jules does and throw in Thomas as well!

Imagine having to face Thomas, Gordon and Harry? Three huge receivers and all the while keeping an eye on the running game? With the GOAT as QB?

This offense has serious potential is all this pans out.
NFL has no update on Josh Gordon’s possible reinstatement

Quote:
Video of Patriots quarterback Tom Brady throwing with wide receiver Josh Gordon on Wednesday served as a reminder that Gordon’s rights remain with New England and that there have been reports indicating he could return to the team this season.

There’s been no word of any reinstatement application at this point and the league had little to say on the matter Wednesday.

Gordon was suspended indefinitely last December and Jeff Howe of TheAthletic.com asked an NFL spokesperson if there was a timeline for a review of that suspension. Howe reports that the response was that the league has no update to provide regarding Gordon’s status.

In March, NFL Commissioner said that the immediate focus for all parties was to make sure Gordon is doing “what he needs to do to get his life on the right track.” He said that once the feeling was that Gordon had found that track, the league will “get to that place” of determining a return to action.
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:56 AM   #1712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecrime View Post
Thomas isn't on my 53 even without Gordon.
WRs:
Harry
Edelman
Berrios
Dorsett
Harris
Slater (nominal)
I agree.

Though I always list Slater as Specialist. Heís no more WR than he is a P.
Donít sleep on Inman yet. His lack of reps/targets could have been a result of something undisclosed. Thereís skill/talent there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecrime View Post
You really think Harry will be so bad that it is a necessity to have a replacement for him already?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriots71 View Post
Bad? No, rookie? Yes. I would be shocked if he comes in and takes over, it just does not happen here for whatever reason, and I know he is the highest we have ever taken a wideout in the BB era, but I am not counting on it to just blossom that quickly. Maybe as the season goes by.
I agree. Rookies always have a tough time. Year 1 likely wonít be his year. He can be productive and a threat if itís kept simple and his role grows as he does.
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:59 AM   #1713
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Originally Posted by TommyD420 View Post
I'll give you credit on this one, you've been riding this train since it came into the station.
Over 30 WRs with multiple Achilles issues tend to give me pause.
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:30 AM   #1714
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Originally Posted by Dwight Schrute View Post
I agree. Rookies always have a tough time. Year 1 likely wonít be his year. He can be productive and a threat if itís kept simple and his role grows as he does.
IF he does anything it will be second half of the season, and I expect Mitchell level production.
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:53 AM   #1715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikiemo83 View Post
IF he does anything it will be second half of the season, and I expect Mitchell level production.
That would be excellent.

Especially the ending.
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:15 PM   #1716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecrime View Post
You really think Harry will be so bad that it is a necessity to have a replacement for him already?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriots71 View Post
Bad? No, rookie? Yes. I would be shocked if he comes in and takes over, it just does not happen here for whatever reason, and I know he is the highest we have ever taken a wideout in the BB era, but I am not counting on it to just blossom that quickly. Maybe as the season goes by.
????? Answering someone who thought Harry was such a question mark the Josh Gordon was a NECESSITY.

I didn't say Harry would 'take over,' though IMO it is more likely he will take over as top WR this year than than it is he'll be a bust. And I didn't say immediately, either. If Harry is doing well by playoff time, who here is going to be disappointed?

I know the Boston thing to assume no rookie can produce, but many many Pats rookies have done well over the years. Some have been injured, but not many first round busts.

I just don't understand this whole "He never played an NFL snap" thing. No rookie has and yet everyone in the NFL never played a snap until he did.
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:57 PM   #1717
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That would be excellent.

Especially the ending.
you know me, always a happy ending!
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:14 PM   #1718
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:59 PM   #1719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecrime View Post
????? Answering someone who thought Harry was such a question mark the Josh Gordon was a NECESSITY.

I didn't say Harry would 'take over,' though IMO it is more likely he will take over as top WR this year than than it is he'll be a bust. And I didn't say immediately, either. If Harry is doing well by playoff time, who here is going to be disappointed?

I know the Boston thing to assume no rookie can produce, but many many Pats rookies have done well over the years. Some have been injured, but not many first round busts.

I just don't understand this whole "He never played an NFL snap" thing. No rookie has and yet everyone in the NFL never played a snap until he did.


I just never see it. I would be shocked if he had a mjor contribution this year. I think his major stuff comes after brady is not in the league anymore.
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Old 06-20-2019, 02:04 PM   #1720
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It’s not just New England. Most rookie WRs take awhile. Outside of QB is there another position that’s got a bigger difference between how it’s played in college and the NFL? I’d be pretty happy with 5 or 6 TDS, and 700 yards. And the TD number is that high just because of his body type.
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Old 06-20-2019, 02:46 PM   #1721
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Quote:
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It’s not just New England. Most rookie WRs take awhile. Outside of QB is there another position that’s got a bigger difference between how it’s played in college and the NFL? I’d be pretty happy with 5 or 6 TDS, and 700 yards. And the TD number is that high just because of his body type.
I agree that QB and WR are the two positions with the biggest difference in college/pros, but with a caveat. College QBs in some systems (read option, always in shotgun, any system where reading a defense isn't necessary) don't do as well as QBs who play a game more similar to the Pros. For WR, I think the difference is speed and press coverage. So many WRs in the NCAA rely on pure speed to get open, vice route running. That just doesn't happen in the NFL. Nor is there a whole lot of pressing on the LOS by DBs that I've noticed in college games.

Even so, for WRs, I think most first round picks do as well as your numbers assuming they don't have a bad QB throwing to them, or if they aren't on a team with more than 3 excellent receiving options. The latter will hold Harry's numbers down. 700 yards sounds about right, I guess, but I don't see Harry with 5-6 TDs. I don't think Edelman averaged 5-6 TDs a year, and he's been the go-to WR most of the last 6 or so years. Remember BB's penchant for running the ball inside the 10. If folks judge a WR's success by yards & TDs, they'll say Harry wasn't be very good. But those who judge by whether or not he catches most of the balls thrown his way will say he did well indeed.

Take Malcolm Mitchell in his only year. 401 yards, 4 TDs. A first year WR failure? I think he played a major part in the 2016 season.

We'll see how he does next January/February. Barring injury or the return of Josh Gordon, I think he'll be a solid part of the team by then. Just declaring my opinion. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. Chad Jackson.

If I get a chance this weekend, I'll look up first round WRs over the laste few years and see how they did their rookie years.

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Old 06-20-2019, 06:49 PM   #1722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecrime View Post
I agree that QB and WR are the two positions with the biggest difference in college/pros, but with a caveat. College QBs in some systems (read option, always in shotgun, any system where reading a defense isn't necessary) don't do as well as QBs who play a game more similar to the Pros. For WR, I think the difference is speed and press coverage. So many WRs in the NCAA rely on pure speed to get open, vice route running. That just doesn't happen in the NFL. Nor is there a whole lot of pressing on the LOS by DBs that I've noticed in college games.

Even so, for WRs, I think most first round picks do as well as your numbers assuming they don't have a bad QB throwing to them, or if they aren't on a team with more than 3 excellent receiving options. The latter will hold Harry's numbers down. 700 yards sounds about right, I guess, but I don't see Harry with 5-6 TDs. I don't think Edelman averaged 5-6 TDs a year, and he's been the go-to WR most of the last 6 or so years. Remember BB's penchant for running the ball inside the 10. If folks judge a WR's success by yards & TDs, they'll say Harry wasn't be very good. But those who judge by whether or not he catches most of the balls thrown his way will say he did well indeed.

Take Malcolm Mitchell in his only year. 401 yards, 4 TDs. A first year WR failure? I think he played a major part in the 2016 season.

We'll see how he does next January/February. Barring injury or the return of Josh Gordon, I think he'll be a solid part of the team by then. Just declaring my opinion. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. Chad Jackson.

If I get a chance this weekend, I'll look up first round WRs over the laste few years and see how they did their rookie years.

2014 was a great year for WRs. A few others follow in the 2nd table but these aren't all of them since Keenan Allen, AJGreen and Julio aren't here, but these are pretty representative without those outliers.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/w...rst-round-wrs/

Receiver
Pick in 2014 NFL Draft (Team)
Receptions (2014)Receiving yards (2014)
Receiving TDs (2014)
Sammy Watkins
4th overall (BUF)
65982
6
Mike Evans
7th overall (TB)
681,051
12
Odell Beckham Jr.
12th overall (NYG)
911,305
12
Brandin Cooks
20th overall (NOR)
53550
3
Kelvin Benjamin
28th overall (CAR)
731,008
9



Receiver (Team)
Pick (Year)
Rookie receptions
Rookie receiving yardsRookie receiving TDs
Demaryius Thomas (DEN)
22 (2010)
22
2832
Dez Bryant (DAL)
24 (2010)
45
5619
Darrius Heyward-Bey (OAK)
7 (2009)
9
1241
Michael Crabtree (SF)
10 (2009)
48
6252
Jeremy Maclin (PHI)
19 (2009)
56
7734
Percy Harvin (MIN)
22 (2009)
60
7906
Hakeem Nicks (NYG)
29 (2009)
47
7906
Kenny Britt (TEN)
30 (2009)
42
7013
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:04 PM   #1723
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Regarding N'Keal Harry, I've read several studies that show he projects to be one of the best if not the best rookie WR in the last 5 years. I don't like fantasy football but fantasy projections are about as good as it gets bc they take the QB/team/coach into consideration and there's almost no bias.

Here's 1 study I remember:
https://www.fantasypros.com/2019/05/...tasy-football/

1. NíKeal Harry (NE):

111% z-score, 229 FP/year
This man is simply incredible from a statistical standpoint. With the highest z-score of any WR in the last five years, Harry is projected to be an elite fantasy contender with a very high floor. Nearby z-score rankings consist of Mike Evans, Julio Jones, Amari Cooper, and the great Larry Fitzgerald!

He scores well in every z-score category, has first-round pedigree, and goes to an offense that just won the Super Bowl with Tom Brady
at the helm, not to mention one of their few large body targets retired this year in Rob Gronkowski. He is in a tier of his own and you may want to consider trading up for him (given the price is right) with anyone who has the lack of due diligence to undervalue him. If this point hasnít been driven home yet, look at the overall chart above and follow a 1.11 z-score to corresponding PPG to convince yourself. He should be the undisputed top overall selection in all PPR rookie dynasty leagues.
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Old 06-21-2019, 07:38 AM   #1724
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I would not sleep on Harry's potential production this year. I think he's going to be one of Brady's top binkies sooner than people think, especially without Gronkowski. If he can learn the playbook quickly, he's going to be a stud out of the gate.
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Old 06-21-2019, 07:41 AM   #1725
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I would not sleep on Harry's potential production this year. I think he's going to be one of Brady's top binkies sooner than people think, especially without Gronkowski. If he can learn the playbook quickly, he's going to be a stud out of the gate.
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