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Old 12-25-2017, 11:21 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D2maine View Post
keep him till the end the year is not over, a lot can change, and get the 3 for loosing him to fa

the stuff about wanting to move jg out of the afc makes it even worse, that means BB thinks JG is the next best thing and gave him away for a 3-2 swap.

you telling me bb the man who traded bledsoe in the division, cut milloy knowing he would end up in the division is suddenly scared of jg...really?
Yes. Every situation is different. That is the beauty of BB, he is always acting and reacting to every situation with insight and foreknowledge. BB told you what he thought of Jimmy when he traded him. Tried his best to keep the guy on a bridge deal which he never offered to a back up before. So yeah, trading him to the NFC makes perfect sense. He still has the GOAT QB for another couple of years and time to find the next guy.
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:37 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by D2maine View Post
true on all of this but that does not mean you can't question a move that by all things BB seems completely out of character
Oh. Sorry. I know I just told you what I would do, what I feel, but remind me where I said that other stupid stupid thing. TIA.
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Old 12-25-2017, 07:39 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D2maine View Post
keep him till the end the year is not over, a lot can change, and get the 3 for loosing him to fa

the stuff about wanting to move jg out of the afc makes it even worse, that means BB thinks JG is the next best thing and gave him away for a 3-2 swap.

you telling me bb the man who traded bledsoe in the division, cut milloy knowing he would end up in the division is suddenly scared of jg...really?
JG is going to be scary to face going forward (or so it would appear)
I do agree that keeping him and just taking the 3 is the safer move, but Brady (barring any freak injury) didn't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon.
imagine the screaming around here if he was doing this for Miami or (god strike me down for typing this) the Jests!
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Old 12-25-2017, 10:44 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by D2maine View Post

also trying to down play the 3 by calling it 90 and highlighting the 2 dosen't fool anybody it was a 2 in replacement of a 3. be truethfull


If they kept JimmyG and he left in free agency, the highest pick they could have gotten for him would be 97.

Compensatory picks come at the end of the third round. 3 x 32 = 96.

So in reality, it isn't a 3rd, it's an early 4th round pick .
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:11 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
So in reality, it isn't a 3rd, it's an early 4th round pick .
Thanks for clarifying.

And it should be repeated..... in such a scenario, the Pats have no control over where he signs. More AFC teams are QBneedy, especially in the East, so shipping him to an NFC team, one that is a few years out, had to be a factor. As an FA, ending up in MIA, BUF, or even DEN or KC would have presented a real short-term threat.
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:41 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by silviomossa View Post
Thanks for clarifying.

And it should be repeated..... in such a scenario, the Pats have no control over where he signs. More AFC teams are QBneedy, especially in the East, so shipping him to an NFC team, one that is a few years out, had to be a factor. As an FA, ending up in MIA, BUF, or even DEN or KC would have presented a real short-term threat.
SF owns him now.

If they have their heart set on Cousins or a ‘18 draftee there’s nothing preventing them from flipping him to the Dolphins for a 1st.
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Old 12-26-2017, 12:00 AM   #67
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True. Just as there isn’t anything to prevent people from fantasizing trades on fan forums.
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Old 12-26-2017, 06:06 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Schrute View Post
SF owns him now.

If they have their heart set on Cousins or a ‘18 draftee there’s nothing preventing them from flipping him to the Dolphins for a 1st.
Given how Jimmy has performed Lynch will offer him a fat deal this offseason. Rumors are $85 mil for 4 years with 40% guaranteed.
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Old 12-26-2017, 07:09 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecrime View Post
Maybe BB didn't want to see him in a Dolphins or Bills uni.

Or in any AFC uni especially a Browns uni knowing Hue Jackson is getting the axe at the end of the season.

In that case Josh McD would follow JimmyG to Cleveland as HC and more probably than not take some present coaches & FO personnel with him. Cleveland would be set up to make some serious noise in the AFC; they're only a good QB and a good HC away from being a contender now.

Listen, BB is anything but dumb. He knew exactly what he was doing.

Getting JimmyG to an NFC team with a stable coaching staff was more important to BB than getting a better deal than SF offered. Cleveland, or most any AFC team, unless they broke the bank with picks, was never an option for BB. BB got exactly what he wanted and Patriots are better off long term this way.
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Old 12-26-2017, 12:54 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Dwight Schrute View Post
This.

But he could’ve Franchised and traded - like Cassel - and now have gotten a higher 2 because JG just keeps winning.
I don't recall the exact situation that played out in 2009, but this is a much more convoluted process than you imply. First, NE only projects to be about $14mm below the cap, so they would have to free up roughly ~$10mm to even consider the option. That's doable, of course, but it creates a whole host of other potential problems.

1) No franchise tag for another player.
2) Only teams with at least $23mm in cap space could make a trade.
3) No room for signing other FAs, so NE would be out of the market until unloading Jimmy. Not only does this severely impede roster development, it's yet another painted corner that would limit Jimmy's market.
4) Jimmy would be another full year removed from his 6 quarters of action, which depresses his market even more.

^This^ is why I never considered a tag-and-trade scenario viable. A tag would only have come into the picture if NE was planning on keeping JG around.

One other thing, the NFC benefit of a SF trade partner gets mentioned a lot, but no one ever brings Hoyer into the discussion. He's no great shakes, but prying the most immediately helpful backup loose - and a guy who can keep the seat warm for a few years while they develop the next successor - was undoubtedly a key part of this trade, one that Bill likely sees at least as valuable as another 3rd or 4th round pick.
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Old 12-26-2017, 01:40 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Oswlek View Post
I don't recall the exact situation that played out in 2009, but this is a much more convoluted process than you imply. First, NE only projects to be about $14mm below the cap, so they would have to free up roughly ~$10mm to even consider the option. That's doable, of course, but it creates a whole host of other potential problems.

1) No franchise tag for another player.
2) Only teams with at least $23mm in cap space could make a trade.
3) No room for signing other FAs, so NE would be out of the market until unloading Jimmy. Not only does this severely impede roster development, it's yet another painted corner that would limit Jimmy's market.
4) Jimmy would be another full year removed from his 6 quarters of action, which depresses his market even more.

^This^ is why I never considered a tag-and-trade scenario viable. A tag would only have come into the picture if NE was planning on keeping JG around.

One other thing, the NFC benefit of a SF trade partner gets mentioned a lot, but no one ever brings Hoyer into the discussion. He's no great shakes, but prying the most immediately helpful backup loose - and a guy who can keep the seat warm for a few years while they develop the next successor - was undoubtedly a key part of this trade, one that Bill likely sees at least as valuable as another 3rd or 4th round pick.
There a machinations in place where the salary cap is not enforced to the 53 year round I thought.

Else any Franchise tag and trades in the off season would be difficult at best.
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Old 12-26-2017, 01:59 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Dwight Schrute View Post
There a machinations in place where the salary cap is not enforced to the 53 year round I thought.

Else any Franchise tag and trades in the off season would be difficult at best.
It goes to the top 51, which is already built into the numbers.
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Old 12-26-2017, 02:16 PM   #73
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Jimmy is going to be a star. Anyone could see that when he was here. That trade will be the biggest disaster in BB's career when it's all said and done. Should have held on to him until the end of this season and traded Brady.
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Old 12-26-2017, 02:18 PM   #74
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I have to believe that BB didn't want to take the risk of not being able to sign JG after this year (assuming this year would be designated as TB's last in NE) and having to franchise JG.
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Old 12-26-2017, 05:26 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsFan09 View Post
Funny how hindsight isn’t 20/20.
Last we saw of Jimmy G, he played a game and a half of solid football, then was hurt in a play that lost QBs bounce back from. Many here then condemned him as soft/fragile when he didn’t come back for the Bills game .
He then had a mediocre preseason.

But nope, now everyone thinks that he’s God’s gift to the NFL.

Hindsight.


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People that watched Jimmy and didn't see at least a little more than the way you describe him just boggle my mind.

If watched closely you could see the same kind of decisiveness/quick release/accuracy that people are seeing with him in SF.

I saw good things in Jimmy from the first preseason snaps I saw him take and clear, steady improvement from there. And I'm not particularly smart. A lot of people here saw the same sort of things if you looked past the stat sheet.

Literally the only real obstacles he had were level of competition in school and very limited opportunity to play behind Brady. Other than that, his struggles were brief and minor compared to most other young QBs. This kid was simply advanced from early on.

Having said that, I don't think the wildest Jimmy G. Supporter out there had any idea he would lead that shit team to 5 straight wins.

The real "hindsight is 20 20" with his situation is all the folks who thought he threw too many picks in Training Camp this year suddenly griping about how we should have gotten more for him when they never thought he was worth anything in the first place.
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