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Old 08-13-2017, 08:41 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Despot View Post
I judge Trump by the words that come out of his mouth, not by anyone else's interpretation.

He had a chance to be presidential, to lead.

He didn't.
READ the words in the statement.

He chose to try to unite.

obama could have done the same but didn't. Does this now mean that we should blame obama for all of the violent protests of the BLM in Ferguson, Milwaukee, Baltimore and Charlotte? Not to mention all of the police officers assassinated by the supporters of the BLM that obama encouraged?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ests-police-m/

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...y-group-225291

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/18...ter-obama.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-de...tests-heat-up/

Somebody here told me I needed to post "links".......
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Old 08-13-2017, 08:45 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aloyouis View Post

Different than the cop killer supporter/members of the BLM, I will do what's right and help you out.

No worries.
Since you can never address the current topic and always revert to your obnoxious habit of bringing up other issues, why don't you tell me who was marching yesterday and who the aggressors were.

Now, keep in mind, we've all seen the pictures and videos.

And try not to bring in the weak sauce conspiratorial talking points used by the likes of Alex Jones/InfoWars about Soros planting people and this being the fault of the dems. I know that might be hard for you, but let's just hear you tell us exactly what it was.

I can't wait.
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Old 08-13-2017, 08:47 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aloyouis View Post

READ the words in the statement.

He chose to try to unite.

obama could have done the same but didn't. Does this now mean that we should blame obama for all of the violent protests of the BLM in Ferguson, Milwaukee, Baltimore and Charlotte? Not to mention all of the police officers assassinated by the supporters of the BLM that obama encouraged?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ests-police-m/

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...y-group-225291

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/18...ter-obama.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-de...tests-heat-up/

Somebody here told me I needed to post "links".......
We HEARD his words. And they were cowardly bullshit so he didn't insult his white dumbass base. And the proof is in the Daily Storm's pudding. He emboldened them.



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Old 08-13-2017, 09:42 PM   #49
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OK, that clearly didn't work.

Jesus H. ****ing Christ.

If there was ever a poster child for the "oppressed/oppressor" meme, this god damn thread is it.

Everybody just needs to shut the **** up and take a step back.

PFL, et al.

Yes I understand you are looking at this through the "oppressed/oppressor" prism and from your perspective, one cannot be more of an "oppressor" than a racist Nazi.

So if someone does not raise high dudgeon against such claims, it is paramount to supporting such claims. Regardless of what the opposition has done.

But what you are failing to understand, is that if one is not looking at things using the "oppressed/oppressor" prism, then one does not consider which side is inherently "right" or "wrong", but what each has done in any given scenario.

So cut the other side some slack, and consider how someone who doesn't adhere to the "oppressed/oppressor" perspective would view things.

Aloyouis, et al

You're no different.

You're failing to understand that your opposites are using the "oppressed/oppressor" meme.

As long as you fail to accept that, and accept that that's their perspective, you'll never actually communicate.

Get over it, and move on.

Oh and for the record, I have no desire to debate if the "oppressed/oppressor" perspective is "right", "appropriate", etc.

It is what it is.

One either believes/uses it or one doesn't. End of story.
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:09 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aloyouis View Post
Sure. He didn't condemn ANY specific group unlike obama that went after law enforcement repeatedly via his DOJ.

When you are bringing the country together, this is what you do as a leader. Anything less would be obama like.

PS- do you REALLY want to get into a battle of fringe twitter posts? BLM is loaded with hate and racist crap.

President Trump delivered a great response to the far left fascists and far right racists. IIWII

BLM exists to protest actual abuses of power. If some of their members are racist or extreme, that is not the stated purpose of the group as a whole.

Stormfront, David Duke et al. exist solely to promote racism. That is their ONLY purpose.

It's a massive false equivalency to equate these two things.
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:16 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
OK, that clearly didn't work.

Jesus H. ****ing Christ.

If there was ever a poster child for the "oppressed/oppressor" meme, this god damn thread is it.

Everybody just needs to shut the **** up and take a step back.

PFL, et al.

Yes I understand you are looking at this through the "oppressed/oppressor" prism and from your perspective, one cannot be more of an "oppressor" than a racist Nazi.

So if someone does not raise high dudgeon against such claims, it is paramount to supporting such claims. Regardless of what the opposition has done.

But what you are failing to understand, is that if one is not looking at things using the "oppressed/oppressor" prism, then one does not consider which side is inherently "right" or "wrong", but what each has done in any given scenario.

So cut the other side some slack, and consider how someone who doesn't adhere to the "oppressed/oppressor" perspective would view things.

Aloyouis, et al

You're no different.

You're failing to understand that your opposites are using the "oppressed/oppressor" meme.

As long as you fail to accept that, and accept that that's their perspective, you'll never actually communicate.

Get over it, and move on.

Oh and for the record, I have no desire to debate if the "oppressed/oppressor" perspective is "right", "appropriate", etc.

It is what it is.

One either believes/uses it or one doesn't. End of story.
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:16 PM   #52
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@OPT,

I am not on the side of the white supremacists. I see them as a lunatic fringe hate group worthy of contempt, just as I do with the Ferguson rioters, the students tearing up campuses because someone they don't like is speaking there, etc. To me, lunatic fringe is the bad thing, and what they are lunatics (violent)about is secondary because to me there is never justification for violence perpatrated on innocent people/people who simply don't believe as you do. People who resort to violence in those instances are always the fascists/oppressors de facto.
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"That number doesn't mean anything."


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Old 08-14-2017, 06:38 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aloyouis View Post
READ the words in the statement.

He chose to try to unite.

obama could have done the same but didn't. Does this now mean that we should blame obama for all of the violent protests of the BLM in Ferguson, Milwaukee, Baltimore and Charlotte? Not to mention all of the police officers assassinated by the supporters of the BLM that obama encouraged?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ests-police-m/

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...y-group-225291

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/18...ter-obama.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-de...tests-heat-up/

Somebody here told me I needed to post "links".......
I watched the entire statement.

Reading the words someone else wrote, only looking up to enuncuate "on all sides" twice.

Trump won't come out and say this was domestic terrorism by white racists because he doesn't want to offend his base and that is disgusting.
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I look back,
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Old 08-14-2017, 06:42 AM   #54
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OPT, for me, there are absolutes.

One is I don't support Nazi's the KKK or any of the other groups that espouse a similar ideology, it has nothing to do with oppression/oppressed lenses, it has to do with right and wrong.

What is so hard about saying "these fringe groups are the most anti-American individuals because they are opposed to the very principle that all men are created equal."
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"An image haunts me:
proceeding across a battlefield,
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I am up front to draw the fire.
I look back,
and one of those I was to protect has fallen."

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Old 08-14-2017, 07:00 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
OK, that clearly didn't work.

Jesus H. ****ing Christ.

If there was ever a poster child for the "oppressed/oppressor" meme, this god damn thread is it.

Everybody just needs to shut the **** up and take a step back.

PFL, et al.

Yes I understand you are looking at this through the "oppressed/oppressor" prism and from your perspective, one cannot be more of an "oppressor" than a racist Nazi.

So if someone does not raise high dudgeon against such claims, it is paramount to supporting such claims. Regardless of what the opposition has done.

But what you are failing to understand, is that if one is not looking at things using the "oppressed/oppressor" prism, then one does not consider which side is inherently "right" or "wrong", but what each has done in any given scenario.

So cut the other side some slack, and consider how someone who doesn't adhere to the "oppressed/oppressor" perspective would view things.

Aloyouis, et al

You're no different.

You're failing to understand that your opposites are using the "oppressed/oppressor" meme.

As long as you fail to accept that, and accept that that's their perspective, you'll never actually communicate.

Get over it, and move on.

Oh and for the record, I have no desire to debate if the "oppressed/oppressor" perspective is "right", "appropriate", etc.

It is what it is.

One either believes/uses it or one doesn't. End of story.
Look, I get that you look at everything through a philosophical lens. That doesn't work for me. This has nothing to do with oppressor/oppressed for me. It has to do with an ever-growing faction of society in thought, actions and words that have found themselves emboldened and empowered by the inactions of our president and the fact that he has a chief strategist STILL who spawned the alt-right movement, thereby allowing other movements such as the nationalist militia, neo-Nazis, skinheads, etc., to find a larger and louder platform, and a chief advisor in Miller who blatantly espouses his message as a white nationalist/alt-right member and has a long-term, close relationship with Richard Spencer. Mixing those things in with the fact that the leader of this country flat-out refused - right up to this very second after having heat from all sides thrown at him for his intentional omission - to specifically say the words "white supremacists" or any form of the intent of that term is egregious. It's beyond egregious.

And anyone who makes excuses for that or finds his words sufficient enough or interprets his words to have meant them to be inclusive is simply pathetic. And it says an awful lot about who they are.

OPT, I will have have discussions with you, but please don't lecture me. I do understand your intent here and the attempt to make people see all sides. Not with this. Not now. This issue has no middle ground, no equalization, no excuses or justifications. Either you find Trump's statement sufficient or you don't. In my mind's eye, if you do, you're part of the problem. That's my perception, and you're not going to change it.
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Old 08-14-2017, 07:42 AM   #56
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http://www.redstate.com/joesquire/20...ille-violence/

reasonable, a strange thing in these strange days
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I am up front to draw the fire.
I look back,
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Old 08-14-2017, 07:47 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Despot View Post
http://www.redstate.com/joesquire/20...ille-violence/

reasonable, a strange thing in these strange days
Fair.
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Old 08-14-2017, 08:24 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsFanLisa View Post
Interesting response.

My interpretation of what's bolded is if you believe that, you're part of the problem.
I think it would always be best for any violent fringe group to be condemned specifically by any president when they commit atrocities. I viewed that as not wanting to incite them specifically to more violence. I definitely see where people could view it as pandering to the group. If he did it because white racists campaigned for him, that's gross.
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"That number doesn't mean anything."


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Old 08-14-2017, 08:58 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
The conservatives aren't marching the streets in hooded masks assaulting people and setting things on fire.

I guarantee you that if you went to an NRA meeting to talk about gun control, you may get shouted down, but you wouldn't be assaulted.

Now, if I go to a snowflake/antifa/SJW meeting to express my pro-2nd amendment views, I would almost certainly be assaulted, and potentially be in danger of my life, and my vehicle would likely be damaged, if not destroyed in the process.

Do you disagree?

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Old 08-14-2017, 08:59 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSanders View Post
I think it would always be best for any violent fringe group to be condemned specifically by any president when they commit atrocities. I viewed that as not wanting to incite them specifically to more violence. I definitely see where people could view it as pandering to the group. If he did it because white racists campaigned for him, that's gross.
They're not so fringe. They've been growing, organizing, merging, and have cells all over the country. They are a large part of the president's base, along with the rural/belt population who aren't as radical but are still racist.

And still, today, with all of the pressure from, well, everyone, he still has said nothing. Oh, he's tweeting, all right. A dig at Frazier, who walked out this morning from his whichever council, CEO at Merck Pharma, a black American who could no longer morally serve the president because of his blatant omission on these groups.

You may have viewed it as wanting to incite them. I believe that to be false. They incite themselves. He didn't want to alienate his ever-diminishing base is how i view it. And how I will continue to view it unless HE, not unnamed WH press people, says the words.

I'll wait.
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