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Old 06-20-2017, 06:34 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Well first dispense with this cartoonish idea you have of a liberal. It's just as absurd and ridiculous as the liberal caracture of a conservative. Also just as unproductive.

Two party systems like ours work best when there is shall we say "creative tension" between the two, but they don't actively hate each other. Generally speaking the liberals bring the culture forward and prevent it from stagnating. Conservatives, again generally speaking, are into preserving the current culture and act to stabilize things. Too much change is just as damaging as no change.

You need them and they need you, so you're going to have to figure out how to talk to each other.
It's too late for that IMO.
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:41 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by AkPatsFan View Post
It's too late for that IMO.
That's unfortunate because the consequences could be very severe. I think it's at least worth trying.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:26 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Well first dispense with this cartoonish idea you have of a liberal. It's just as absurd and ridiculous as the liberal caracture of a conservative. Also just as unproductive.

Two party systems like ours work best when there is shall we say "creative tension" between the two, but they don't actively hate each other. Generally speaking the liberals bring the culture forward and prevent it from stagnating. Conservatives, again generally speaking, are into preserving the current culture and act to stabilize things. Too much change is just as damaging as no change.

You need them and they need you, so you're going to have to figure out how to talk to each other.
Interesting that you would direct this at me given our liberal friends here but I think that shows your liberal bias. I know you don't agree with that. Or maybe I should say I suspect you don't.

You really need to discern better the debate that takes place on the extremes here (required by liberals) from real life. When a liberal goes on the attack, you seem to accept it. When a conservative does the same, you get your back up. IMO, of course.

I am a happily married man with 3 (thankfully) intelligent and healthy kids. A good portion of the reason for that is my wife of 22+ years, the NEA and MEA card carrying union member/teacher of 25+ years. I'll try to get her on here. She isn't a football fan (does like to go to games and drink a beer). Just don't bring up charter schools or pensions. Or do it. I'll watch.

How on earth could she possibly deal with ME? Because we find compromise just like every successfully married couple does.

I don't have a cartoonish opinion of liberals in general. Here, my opinion doesn't matter, they tend to be cartoonish.

I have much more to say on this but I am getting the hook.

To be continued....
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Old 06-20-2017, 08:02 PM   #49
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How on earth could she possibly deal with ME? Because we find compromise just like every successfully married couple does.
Excellent. All I'm saying is apply that same paradigm to politics. The marriage analogy for political parties is pretty well known.

Right now Mommy and Daddy are chasing each other with kitchen knives. That's not good for the children.
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Old 06-20-2017, 08:17 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Excellent. All I'm saying is apply that same paradigm to politics. The marriage analogy for political parties is pretty well known.

Right now Mommy and Daddy are chasing each other with kitchen knives. That's not good for the children.
Well in reality not hiding disagreement is actually good for children. Imay draw the line at knives though

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Old 06-21-2017, 06:30 AM   #51
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The problem is both sides have forgotten they need each other.


What I need from the left is for them to learn how to leave people the f*ck alone, and acknowledge that the Bill of Rights is legally and culturally important. (This is not exclusively directed at the left, they are just greater offenders.)
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 06-21-2017, 09:09 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post


What I need from the left is for them to learn how to leave people the f*ck alone, and acknowledge that the Bill of Rights is legally and culturally important. (This is not exclusively directed at the left, they are just greater offenders.)
This in a nutshell.

Quit trying to cram your freak-show bullshit down my throat and leave me the hell alone. I don't care what you do, I don't care how mentally ill you are until it has a direct adverse affect on my life. Quit calling me a racist/homophobe/islamaphobe/xenophobe/bigot because my values and the way I choose to live my life differ from yours.

Not rocket science here.
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Old 06-21-2017, 09:21 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post


What I need from the left is for them to learn how to leave people the f*ck alone, and acknowledge that the Bill of Rights is legally and culturally important. (This is not exclusively directed at the left, they are just greater offenders.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.Z.O. View Post
This in a nutshell.

Quit trying to cram your freak-show bullshit down my throat and leave me the hell alone. I don't care what you do, I don't care how mentally ill you are until it has a direct adverse affect on my life. Quit calling me a racist/homophobe/islamaphobe/xenophobe/bigot because my values and the way I choose to live my life differ from yours.

Not rocket science here.
100%
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Old 06-21-2017, 09:37 AM   #54
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Were I in a position to moderate the discussion, my suggestion would be for conservatives to let up on certain social issues (gay marriage for example) and for liberals to give up on the Marxist nonsense.

Obviously these are both positions I've personally advocated for, but I think it would present a good start to compromise.
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Old 06-21-2017, 09:40 AM   #55
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Baron and O.Z.O. said it about as well as it could be stated.
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Old 06-21-2017, 09:46 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by AkPatsFan View Post
Baron and O.Z.O. said it about as well as it could be stated.
From a purely strategic viewpoint, you should hope the unfounded accusations of racism etc continue. Republicans couldn't ask for a better recruiting tool for working class white people than for their opponent to continually slander them.

Why the DNC thought that would fly is a ****ing mystery to me.
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Old 06-21-2017, 09:54 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Were I in a position to moderate the discussion, my suggestion would be for conservatives to let up on certain social issues (gay marriage for example) and for liberals to give up on the Marxist nonsense.

Obviously these are both positions I've personally advocated for, but I think it would present a good start to compromise.
You would call me a "strict" conservative yet this isn't true. I have no issues with gay people or any people that go about their own business. Nor do I wish to alter their way of life. To each his own.

I DO have issues when they (almost all liberals) demand to stick it in my face or alter my way of life. If someone thinks they are a "zhe" and not a "she" or "he", I don't give a shit. Just don't expect me to change what I believe and we will get along just fine.

The main difference is that most conservatives are like me. Leave each other alone. Respect each others views but leave each other alone. Stay out of my pocket.

Fine with me.

The issue is that liberals DEMAND that I change my views, change the laws of the country to specifically benefit them and indoctrinate my children with their beliefs.
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Old 06-21-2017, 10:05 AM   #58
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I don't think any of that is unreasonable and probably representive of how most people who lean conservative feel.

Which all the more reason for conservative politicians to give up the anti-gay stuff.

Also, the comment about the "zhe" silliness is an excellent example of what I talked about earlier with conservatives acting to stabilize culture to serve as a counterbalence for when liberals go too far.
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Old 06-21-2017, 10:30 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
I don't think any of that is unreasonable and probably representive of how most people who lean conservative feel.

Which all the more reason for conservative politicians to give up the anti-gay stuff.

Also, the comment about the "zhe" silliness is an excellent example of what I talked about earlier with conservatives acting to stabilize culture to serve as a counterbalence for when liberals go too far.
I don't care what they refer to themselves as, I really don't.

You are conflating what you call "conservatives acting to stabilize culture" with our desire to be left alone and our desire to raise our kids and live our lives as we see fit. The left simply does not allow for it in their current platform. They are the Borg and we must assimilate to their liberalism or else they will.... well look around.

My circle of friends are the exact people that put Trump into office and support his initiatives. We go to Mass. We pay taxes and we are proud of our country and the Constitution it lives in. We may not approve of a gay lifestyle or we may not care one way or another, but we respect the right for everyone to do what they want. The anti-gay crowd on the right is shrinking and is largely inconsequential today.

The exact opposite is happening on the left. The militant left is growing and getting more violent and hateful.

Quite frankly, I am at a loss for how the left can stop this or even that they really want to.
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Old 06-21-2017, 10:31 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
I don't think any of that is unreasonable and probably representive of how most people who lean conservative feel.

Which all the more reason for conservative politicians to give up the anti-gay stuff.

Also, the comment about the "zhe" silliness is an excellent example of what I talked about earlier with conservatives acting to stabilize culture to serve as a counterbalence for when liberals go too far.
Who are these conservative politicians spouting anti-gay rhetoric?
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