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Old 12-10-2015, 01:21 PM   #16
Baron Samedi
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I could, if I cared to, build a case that certain makes of vehicles cause more vehicular deaths than other makes, using the same logic as presented.

State X has more Chevy's than Fords. State Y has more Fords than Chevy's. When scaled for population, State Y has more vehicular deaths per capita than state X, so it is apparent that the proliferation of Fords results in more vehicular deaths, while Chevy's lead to fewer vehicular deaths.

You need a broader base of data. For example, I would point out that states, and primarily cities, that have a denser population and lower average income have a higher homicide rate, with or without guns, regardless of what gun regulations there are. I could probably make a case that states with a higher percentage of veterans has a higher rate of gun related deaths, because they have a higher suicide rate....and suicide is 2/3 of gun deaths. Hey, mroe veterans leads to more gun deaths, so we should ban veterans.

See?

This is not meant to ridicule, it is meant to apply some critical thinking to "apparent" facts.
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:15 AM   #17
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Thought this was kind of funny, but probably accurate too

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Old 12-11-2015, 09:36 AM   #18
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Thought this was kind of funny, but probably accurate too

I don't think it's either funny or true. Simply a cynical way to inject racism into an already weak argument.
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:54 AM   #19
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I just don't accept the argument that you can't have license requirements becaust then the government will know who has the guns.

Hell they could confiscate or hack the NRA membership file and know who had the guns just as fast if the mood strikes them.

Unfortunately for me this is the root cause of the problem, there can be NO laws because...

The single most fundamental right in our democracy is the right to vote. Yet even that is not an unrestricted right. If I want to exercise that right I have to be a citizen, register, show up and vote. Yet somehow owning a firearm is so special that there can be no restrictions at all?

It doesn't add up.
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:03 AM   #20
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Until Americans understand that what exists is a problem of general violence and a warped gun culture rather than a 'gun control problem', little progress will be made.

There's a reason the Swiss don't experience gun violence at anywhere near the levels seen in the US. And it's the same reason why if Canadians were armed at the same rate as Americans, it's unlikely we'd experience gun/violent crime levels on the same level currently seen in the US.

Gun culture. Mental health support. Gun regulations (ie. background checks and training requirements). General criminal activities. These are all critically important, yet the gun control crowd act as though access to guns is the predetermining factor. That implies that countries with low gun violence only experience less violence because they have less guns. That being said, gun nuts who believe the 2nd amendment represents an absolute right should also understand why it may not be wise to put gun ownership in the same category as freedom of [insert inalienable right].

Although gun supporters point to Switzerland as an example of why gun ownership is not the issue, the Swiss are actually an example of how gun culture and other societal elements impact gun violence. I'm sure most Swiss citizens don't give a second thought to their neighbors owning an assault weapon because the gun culture and general crime rates are different. It's quite unlikely some random dude is going to try to burst into their house in the middle of the night. Not quite the same in the US where the gun culture is like night and day.
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:22 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Darth Despot View Post
I just don't accept the argument that you can't have license requirements becaust then the government will know who has the guns.

Hell they could confiscate or hack the NRA membership file and know who had the guns just as fast if the mood strikes them.

Unfortunately for me this is the root cause of the problem, there can be NO laws because...

The single most fundamental right in our democracy is the right to vote. Yet even that is not an unrestricted right. If I want to exercise that right I have to be a citizen, register, show up and vote. Yet somehow owning a firearm is so special that there can be no restrictions at all?

It doesn't add up.
Simple question do you believe in voter ID laws?

~Dee~
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:25 AM   #22
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Simple question do you believe in voter ID laws?

~Dee~
Yes, I don't think asking someone to show an ID to prove who they are is a violation of anyone's right. I do it all the time.
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:39 AM   #23
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Yes, I don't think asking someone to show an ID to prove who they are is a violation of anyone's right. I do it all the time.
Thank you I too think it should be law as I do think you should have some type of gun license. I just found most who say there should be no voter ID laws use the argument we'll it's a constitutional right yada yada yada unless of course it's the second amendment.

~Dee~
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:40 AM   #24
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Yes, I don't think asking someone to show an ID to prove who they are is a violation of anyone's right. I do it all the time.
I agree with you but nevertheless the left will scream racism at voter ID laws yet has no issue with ID requirements when it supports their agenda. Show an ID to get a firearm permit? I see no issue with it.


Edit: Dee was on it faster than I was LOL
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Old 12-11-2015, 12:47 PM   #25
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I just don't accept the argument that you can't have license requirements becaust then the government will know who has the guns.

Hell they could confiscate or hack the NRA membership file and know who had the guns just as fast if the mood strikes them.

Unfortunately for me this is the root cause of the problem, there can be NO laws because...

The single most fundamental right in our democracy is the right to vote. Yet even that is not an unrestricted right. If I want to exercise that right I have to be a citizen, register, show up and vote. Yet somehow owning a firearm is so special that there can be no restrictions at all?

It doesn't add up.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
Peace, Prosperity, Liberty, Human Rights, Natural Rights, Civil Rights, Property Rights, Sound Money, Free Markets, Sovereignty, the Constitution, the Republic.

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Old 12-11-2015, 01:01 PM   #26
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So you're saying one shouldn't enact A because there is a chance it could lead to B?

How would any law ever get passed ever?
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Old 12-11-2015, 01:10 PM   #27
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I may be wrong in my interpretation of what they're saying but I think they're saying licensing or background checks are fine just the actual registration of each gun is what they object too.

~Dee~.

Last edited by deec77; 12-11-2015 at 01:32 PM..
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Old 12-11-2015, 01:31 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by mooseontheloose View Post
So you're saying one shouldn't enact A because there is a chance it could lead to B?

How would any law ever get passed ever?
I think Janet Reno's quote is pretty self explanatory.

One of the ordinary modes, by which tyrants accomplish their
purposes without resistance, is, by disarming the people,
and making it an offense to keep arms.

Joseph Story (1779-1845)

Last edited by Baron Samedi; 12-11-2015 at 01:42 PM..
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 12-11-2015, 01:58 PM   #29
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If I could have banned them all...I would have! - Diane Feinstein

" If I had my way, sporting guns would be strictly
regulated, the rest would be confiscated"
- Nancy Pelosi

I don't believe anybody has a right to own any kind of a
firearm. I believe in order to obtain a permit to own a
firearm, that person should undergo an exhaustive criminal
background check. In addition, an applicant should give up
his right to privacy and submit his medical records for
review to see if the person has ever had a problem with
alcohol, drugs or mental illness... The Constitution doesn't
count!

John Silber

I don't care about crime, I just want to get the guns.

Howard Metzenbaum

I do not believe in people owning guns. Guns should be owned
only by the police and military. I am going to do everything
I can to disarm this state.
- Michael Dukakis

If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United
States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them...
'Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in,' I would have done
it.
- Diane Feinstein

The pro 2nd Amendment crowd isn't suffering from Paranoia. The anti-2nd Amendment crowd ultimately wants to confiscate all guns from all citizens, but they can't get to that point unless they hide the goal.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
Peace, Prosperity, Liberty, Human Rights, Natural Rights, Civil Rights, Property Rights, Sound Money, Free Markets, Sovereignty, the Constitution, the Republic.

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Old 12-11-2015, 02:27 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
The pro 2nd Amendment crowd isn't suffering from Paranoia. The anti-2nd Amendment crowd ultimately wants to confiscate all guns from all citizens, but they can't get to that point unless they hide the goal.
The problem is you treat the issue as black and white - two extremes with no room in the middle for people who are fine with guns but would prefer regulations and not an outright ban.
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