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Old 12-15-2017, 07:37 AM   #31
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Weapons Went From The CIA To ISIS In Less Than Two Months, New Study Reveals

Mainstream media in 2013: "Conspiracy Theorists!"
Mainstream media in 2017: "ISIS Got a Powerful Missile the CIA Bought!"


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-1...-study-reveals

Blowback: ISIS Got A Powerful Missile The CIA Secretly Bought In Bulgaria

https://www.buzzfeed.com/aramroston/...m4z#.ksekvxR30
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Old 12-15-2017, 08:44 AM   #32
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Old 12-15-2017, 08:48 AM   #33
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Many of us (Americans) are sliding in the same direction. I am not quite a HARD CORE libertarian, but I find the path there more and more inviting as the GOP heads to the left to join forces with the already there left....
Fair warning, if you start shouting about roads or taxation being theft I will use spicy memes to mock you.

It's for your own good just so you know.
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Old 12-15-2017, 09:12 AM   #34
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Bush/Bremer's idiotic deBaathification effort created ISIS.

I have no reason to think that the US would not have tried to exploit this new monster they had created, though, seeing as was already there and howling for blood. Hey you- attack that guy!

The Al Qaeda/ Muhajadeen precedent of the monster turning on its creator is established. Frankenstein, too. Damn monsters with wills of their own...

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Old 12-15-2017, 09:19 AM   #35
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Well it's well documented that the CIA funded the Taliban against the Soviets so it wouldn't be the first time.

Stupid is as stupid does.
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Old 12-15-2017, 09:41 AM   #36
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Bush/Bremer's idiotic deBaathification effort created ISIS.

I have no reason to think that the US would not have tried to exploit this new monster they had created, though, seeing as was already there and howling for blood. Hey you- attack that guy!

The Al Qaeda/ Muhajadeen precedent of the monster turning on its creator is established. Frankenstein, too. Damn monsters with wills of their own...

Correct.

The only thing that is slightly off in your post, is that Al Qaeda, Mujahedeen, and ISIS are all the same people, same militias, the same organization, the same funding. New names get applied based only on political necessity and changing leaders.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:41 AM   #37
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Syrian Army rolls into Idlib with US weapons captured from ISIS

BEIRUT, LEBANON (10:05 P.M.) – The Syrian Arab Army’s (SAA) Tiger Forces arrived in northern Hama this week with a big surprise from their previous operations in the Deir Ezzor Governorate.

Units from the Tiger Forces were seen armed with US-manufactured weapons that were seized from the Islamic State (ISIS) during the two month long battle in Deir Ezzor.

According to a military source in Hama, the Syrian Army’s Tiger Forces are planning to use the US-manufactured weapons against the jihadist rebels in the upcoming battle for the Idlib Governorate.

Among the US-manufactured weapons transferred to the Idlib front were a large number of TOW missiles that were previously supplied by Washington to the rebel forces in Syria before they were later sold to the Islamic State.

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article...captured-isis/
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:48 AM   #38
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If the Iraqi's had the balls to defend their own country instead of turning tale and running, there would have been no ISIS, at least in Iraq.
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:00 PM   #39
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If the Iraqi's had the balls to defend their own country instead of turning tale and running, there would have been no ISIS, at least in Iraq.
The issue, as I understand it, is that the idea of national loyalty doesn't really register because it's still so tribal. What I've gathered is Iraq was pretty much a couple of mortal enemies forced into obedience by a brutal dictator.

We removed the dictator (I'm certainly not mad he's dead) but unfortunately unleashed quite a bit of chaos by doing so.
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:48 PM   #40
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The issue, as I understand it, is that the idea of national loyalty doesn't really register because it's still so tribal. What I've gathered is Iraq was pretty much a couple of mortal enemies forced into obedience by a brutal dictator.

We removed the dictator (I'm certainly not mad he's dead) but unfortunately unleashed quite a bit of chaos by doing so.
Agree 100% but the Iraqi's didn't put up much of a fight when ISIS invaded their country. What they did to the Iraqi's was just as brutal as what Saddam Hussein did to them and as soon as ISIS is squashed we need to GTFOT asap and let them run their own country. The fact that they don't want us there is even more of a reason to leave.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:14 PM   #41
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Sorry to delay your fun.

The Baron is conflating weapons that were intended to be for non-ISIS opponents to Assad, ending up with ISIS as intent that they were destined for ISIS in the first place.

Consider the following from the Buzzfeed article he cites.

Quote:
A new report on how ISIS built its arsenal highlights how the US purchased munitions, intended for Syrian rebels, that ended up in the hands of the terrorist group.

...

A guided anti-tank missile ended up in the hands of ISIS terrorists less than two months after the US government purchased it in late 2015 — highlighting weaknesses in the oversight and regulation of America’s covert arms programs, according to information published Thursday by an arms monitoring group called Conflict Armament Research (CAR).

Though the report says the missile was purchased by the US Army using a contractor, BuzzFeed News has learned that the real customer appears to have been the CIA. It was part of the spy agency’s top secret operation to arm rebels in Syria to fight the forces of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. The missile ended up in the hands of ISIS fighters in Iraq, according to the report.

...

The missile is one piece of a critical puzzle that is being solved only now, with ISIS on the run: How did the vast terror group arm its war machine? CAR spent three years tracking ISIS weapons as they were recovered by Iraqi, Syrian, and Kurdish forces — and found that what happened to the missile was no aberration. Indeed, the terror group managed to divert “substantial quantities of anti-armour ammunition” from weapons provided to Syrian opposition forces by the US or Saudi Arabia.

...

As BuzzFeed News has reported, the US equips proxy armies in Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan with weapons such as AK-47s and rocket-propelled grenades made in Russia and Eastern Europe. The investigators from CAR found that the policy has sometimes backfired, allowing America’s enemies to obtain arms meant for its allies. “Evidence collected by CAR indicates that the United States has repeatedly diverted EU-manufactured weapons and ammunition to opposition forces in the Syrian conflict,” the report states. ISIS, it continues, “rapidly gained custody of significant quantities of this materiel.”
Clearly the article states that it was not the intent of the program to arm ISIS, but that due to incompetence/failure/stupidity/etc. of the US and or malicious intent by groups in Syria they did end up in the hands of ISIS.

That is a completely different story than what is the OP of this thread, namely that the US "created" ISIS, or intentionally had anything to do with it's arming.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:17 PM   #42
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You hade at BuzzFeed.

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Old 12-21-2017, 08:23 PM   #43
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Bush/Bremer's idiotic deBaathification effort created ISIS.

I have no reason to think that the US would not have tried to exploit this new monster they had created, though, seeing as was already there and howling for blood. Hey you- attack that guy!

The Al Qaeda/ Muhajadeen precedent of the monster turning on its creator is established. Frankenstein, too. Damn monsters with wills of their own...

Simple question.

What do you think would have happened in Iraq if we hadn't de-Baathisized?

Just what do you think the Shiaa majority would have done if they were left in power?

I think they would have been the ones who would have been the major source of an insurgency, instead of the Sunni's.

Think of it this way.

Suppose that Jews were the majority of the population in Germany at the end of WWII.

Would you suggest that de-Nazification would be "idiotic"?

What do you think would be the reaction of the Jewish majority?

So tell me, assume you're fully in charge of Iraq after the invasion, what do you do?

How do you keep the various ethnic and religious groups from starting an insurgency?

And no, not invading in the first place is not an acceptable answer. You've already declared de-Baathification is "idiotic", which means you must know of something smarter to do.

So enlighten us.
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Old 12-22-2017, 08:20 AM   #44
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Sorry to delay your fun.

The Baron is conflating weapons that were intended to be for non-ISIS opponents to Assad, ending up with ISIS as intent that they were destined for ISIS in the first place.

Consider the following from the Buzzfeed article he cites.



Clearly the article states that it was not the intent of the program to arm ISIS, but that due to incompetence/failure/stupidity/etc. of the US and or malicious intent by groups in Syria they did end up in the hands of ISIS.

That is a completely different story than what is the OP of this thread, namely that the US "created" ISIS, or intentionally had anything to do with it's arming.
It is well documented by this point. There isn't, and never was, any such thing as "moderate rebels" in Syria outside of the Kurds. The FSA and ISIS were the same groups, they even had the same leaders and used the same flags to identify themselves. They just used the FSA flag when taking deliveries.

The best part was the Pentagon maps showing FSA territory, and the video footage from that territory showing ISIS flags!
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
Peace, Prosperity, Liberty, Human Rights, Natural Rights, Civil Rights, Property Rights, Sound Money, Free Markets, Sovereignty, the Constitution, the Republic.

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Old 12-22-2017, 08:52 AM   #45
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Is there a moderate anything in the Middle East?
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