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Old 04-05-2012, 12:50 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by HomelessJoe View Post
Well, someone's getting the debt dumped on them. Are you content with dumping it on your kids? Your grandkids?
I am content with not getting gypped [sic] out of my hard-earned money that I loaned to the government for the last 35 years, and being rewarded by getting it paid back to me when I need it.

I am also content with leaving my child the balance of my hard-earned money that I invested and saved so that she doesn't have to struggle in times of need, not have to spend it because I was robbed of the other $400K that I paid out with the good faith understanding that it would come back to me at some point if I lived long enough.

Perhaps if we cut the benefits to support other countries and get their governments set up or cut the benefits to those who have never worked a day in their ****ing lives and live off of the government and so do their kids, their many kids, then we won't have to worry about getting our dues back instead of handing them out to the lazy fat asses that procreate endlessly to get MORE money and think they're owed it all.
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:09 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by PatsFanLisa View Post
I am content with not getting gypped [sic] out of my hard-earned money that I loaned to the government for the last 35 years, and being rewarded by getting it paid back to me when I need it.

I am also content with leaving my child the balance of my hard-earned money that I invested and saved so that she doesn't have to struggle in times of need, not have to spend it because I was robbed of the other $400K that I paid out with the good faith understanding that it would come back to me at some point if I lived long enough.

Perhaps if we cut the benefits to support other countries and get their governments set up or cut the benefits to those who have never worked a day in their ****ing lives and live off of the government and so do their kids, their many kids, then we won't have to worry about getting our dues back instead of handing them out to the lazy fat asses that procreate endlessly to get MORE money and think they're owed it all.
And so we arrive back to "Bread and circuses."

Here is what I think you may be missing in this discussion, PFL.

"Right" and "wrong" is irrelevant.

You, me, and everyone else, have been paying 60 cents worth of taxes for every one dollar in government programs we have been getting...for our whole lives, likely.

The other 40 cents has been borrowed.

This is ON TOP of the money that the government TOOK from SSi as you paid into it. That money is not there. It never was. It was spent as soon as it was paid.

It is like you have been putting money into your retirement fund, and then taking that money out as a loan...so you maintained a 0 balance the whole time.

Now....you have a retirement fund full of IOU's to yourself to pay back the money you never really saved in the first place.

Sure...it is "solvent" because you owe yourself a WHOLE LOT of money, so your retirement account has assets in the form of debts owed.

So...your retirement fund is OK because you owe it so much money.

Your recommendations for SSI, though good ones, won't make it solvent. They would just reduce your liability by some small percent.

You thought you were putting money into some kind of savings.

Not really.

You were just paying a tax the entire time. Not a dime of that money was ever saved or generated interest.

You put a dollar into the fund, it was spent just like any other tax, except that you now owe yourself another dollar on top of it.
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Old 04-05-2012, 02:09 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsFanLisa View Post
I am content with not getting gypped [sic] out of my hard-earned money that I loaned to the government for the last 35 years, and being rewarded by getting it paid back to me when I need it.

I am also content with leaving my child the balance of my hard-earned money that I invested and saved so that she doesn't have to struggle in times of need, not have to spend it because I was robbed of the other $400K that I paid out with the good faith understanding that it would come back to me at some point if I lived long enough.

Perhaps if we cut the benefits to support other countries and get their governments set up or cut the benefits to those who have never worked a day in their ****ing lives and live off of the government and so do their kids, their many kids, then we won't have to worry about getting our dues back instead of handing them out to the lazy fat asses that procreate endlessly to get MORE money and think they're owed it all.
Well maybe if the democrats could rely on your vote generation after generation they could give you some freebies too.

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Old 04-05-2012, 02:14 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
And so we arrive back to "Bread and circuses."

Here is what I think you may be missing in this discussion, PFL.

"Right" and "wrong" is irrelevant.

You, me, and everyone else, have been paying 60 cents worth of taxes for every one dollar in government programs we have been getting...for our whole lives, likely.

The other 40 cents has been borrowed.

This is ON TOP of the money that the government TOOK from SSi as you paid into it. That money is not there. It never was. It was spent as soon as it was paid.

It is like you have been putting money into your retirement fund, and then taking that money out as a loan...so you maintained a 0 balance the whole time.

Now....you have a retirement fund full of IOU's to yourself to pay back the money you never really saved in the first place.

Sure...it is "solvent" because you owe yourself a WHOLE LOT of money, so your retirement account has assets in the form of debts owed.

So...your retirement fund is OK because you owe it so much money.

Your recommendations for SSI, though good ones, won't make it solvent. They would just reduce your liability by some small percent.

You thought you were putting money into some kind of savings.

Not really.

You were just paying a tax the entire time. Not a dime of that money was ever saved or generated interest.

You put a dollar into the fund, it was spent just like any other tax, except that you now owe yourself another dollar on top of it.

Exactly, people think they have been "paying into" the system when of course a quick examination will reveal that they were merely "paying for" someone else's retirement benefits.

FDR used this system to get votes and to advance his Keynesian economic model (by driving more money into the hands of spenders rather than savers). Basically, give old people a check and call it a "pension" so it doesn't feel like welfare (even though it was welfare because they didnt pay a dime to get it) which will get their votes and then promise the people who were paying "into the system" a future benefit. This makes this "tax" seem more like a "pay in" which will mean votes won't be lost by taxing people.
The only people who lose of course are the people (like us) who don't have enough "payers" to support their withdrawals from the system.
By strict defintion, Social Security isn't a ponzi scheme (because what is being done isn't illegal) but all the other essential elements are there.

And you can thank FDR for all of this.......:Party:
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Old 04-05-2012, 03:30 PM   #35
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If it makes you feel any better Lisa, my generation isn't going to have any of those benefits.
I`ll be dead before my Social security kicks in anyways, if they keep raising the age for collecting that is.

Dead either from old age or from working till I keel over.

Everyone talks about the "American Dream" But never the American nightmare.Its not how much you can make anymore, but how much can you lose. I have lost allot, but I know its not near as much as many.How suicide rates arent rising is a shocker. Think I missed the Boat by about 25 years, my parents had the best opportunities, the best standard of living, and it just keeps going down hill since...Unless you`re one of the lucky corporate people who have enough $ to make it through anything.

And I`ll say it again, the retirement bennys from our wondeful Politicians is way out of line, that needs to end asap.If we have to Bag groceries when were 65 so can their asses.

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Old 04-05-2012, 03:38 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonTeaDParty View Post
I`ll be dead before my Social security kicks in anyways, if they keep raising the age for collecting that is.
Given how that was just about the original intent of the Social Security, I don't really see a problem with it.
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Old 04-05-2012, 03:41 PM   #37
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Given how that was just about the original intent of the Social Security, I don't really see a problem with it.
I'd feel better if politicians would raise their age to be able to collect their ill-gotten pensions to the same age as required for social security recipients.
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Old 04-05-2012, 03:58 PM   #38
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I'd feel better if politicians would raise their age to be able to collect their ill-gotten pensions to the same age as required for social security recipients.
And on average how many times more are their benny`s? Its quite disgusting.For the opportunity to represent us? or lack there of.No wonder they will lie and steal to get into office.Quite the farking racket.

Time for a good ol revolution?

Anyone else get the Islamic email today? About rising Islamic populations around the world?Its another real eye opener(if its accurate), wont be long and our Kids will be hearing Religion over loud speakers and kneeling to face the Black Rock.Its apparantly much worse in Europe.

If we don`t start getting pro-active about these issues and soon, we are in big trouble.Obama has it figured out though, just get us in on the ground floor early with the Islamic thing.We will have senoirity.Besides, they`re a very tolerant Religion and culture.
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:17 PM   #39
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I think it's a joke that politicians get pensions anyway.

Every damn one of them is a millionaire, many times over.
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:41 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
If it makes you feel any better Lisa, my generation isn't going to have any of those benefits.
This.

I have absolutely no plan on having any Social Security when I retire. I've sunk over $100k already into my retirement, and I'll continue to do that.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:46 AM   #41
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I think it's a joke that politicians get pensions anyway.

Every damn one of them is a millionaire, many times over.
The first female Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives,Nancy Pelosi has an estimated net worth of $35.2 million as of 2011.Pelosiís drastic growth, from an initial $21.7 million in 2009, is attributed to recent stock gains and smart investments. Her husband reported raking in $1 million to $5 million in 2010 from a sale of Apple stocks.

The couple also has a commercial property in San Francisco and a home in St. Helena, Calif., each valued between $5 million and $25 million. She also has a stake in some valuable residential real estate in Sacramento.

All rank-and-file members of Congress received salaries of $174,000 last year. As speaker in 2010, Pelosi was paid $223,500, and House and Senate majority and minority leaders garnered $193,400.


Read more: http://www.celebritynetworth.org/pol...#ixzz1rFvZnJkW

See....ALL elected officials have these amazing stock brokers.

When Nancy was speaker, her net worth grew 62% in one year.

It's all just a coincidence, of course.

Getting elected makes you an amazing investor al of a sudden.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:03 AM   #42
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Yet ironically these brilliant financial minds can't seem to balance the ****ing budget.

Hell, they can't even pass a budget.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:08 AM   #43
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Wow. All this time Pelosi has been a Republican?
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:31 AM   #44
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Yet ironically these brilliant financial minds can't seem to balance the ****ing budget.

Hell, they can't even pass a budget.

Of course they can balance it, but if they ever tried they'd all be out of jobs.
This problem starts and ends with the mob. If the mob truly wanted a balanced budget, then we'd have one.

Again,....don't touch my bread or circus. :yoda:
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:15 AM   #45
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Of course they can balance it, but if they ever tried they'd all be out of jobs.
This problem starts and ends with the mob. If the mob truly wanted a balanced budget, then we'd have one.

Again,....don't touch my bread or circus. :yoda:
If the budget were to be balanced, there'd have to be cuts in everything - social programs, grants and handouts to activist groups, the military, Social Security Medicare, etc... and, frankly getting re-elected is far more important than to even consider touching anything that some special interest group is fond of.
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