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Old 01-25-2007, 07:38 PM   #46
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Re: OT: Global warming zealots strangely silent as temps fail to break 32 degrees

Quote:
Originally posted by Sir Otilc on 01-25-2007 at 10:20 AM
And if you think it was cold this morning, wait until tonight, wind chills will have it be minus degrees.

Where's Al Gore now?
Why would you start a thread about an issue you clearly know nothing about? You're very stupid, to the ignore list with you.
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Old 01-25-2007, 08:22 PM   #47
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Re: Re: OT: Global warming zealots strangely silent as temps fail to break 32 degrees

Quote:
Originally posted by Bandwagoneer on 01-25-2007 at 07:38 PM
Why would you start a thread about an issue you clearly know nothing about? You're very stupid, to the ignore list with you.
In other words, "I'm a Liberal and you raise basic common sense points for which I cannot refute without infantile name calling, Nazi references and the like, so I will exert my perceived superiority over you and just ignore you rather than admit you might have a point or you might even be right."

Sadly, this is not the last time a member of the drive-by ideology acts around anyone who disagrees with them.
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Old 01-26-2007, 03:00 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by FORE!!! on 01-25-2007 at 02:07 PM
My suggestion to anyone who has doubts about mankind creating global warming, really should watch this film.
We've had a couple other threads on this topic already. That film did absolutely nothing to explain why
the polar caps are also shrinking on Mars
, or why there appears to be climate change throughout the solar system.


BTW, maybe one of the MODs could merge all these threads.

http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/sho...threadid=12759

http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/sho...threadid=19085
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Old 01-26-2007, 04:16 PM   #49
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Re: Re: OT: Global warming zealots strangely silent as temps fail to break 32 degrees

Quote:
Originally posted by Bandwagoneer on 01-25-2007 at 07:38 PM
Why would you start a thread about an issue you clearly know nothing about? You're very stupid, to the ignore list with you.
I apologize for biting your head off, I was in a bad mood.
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Old 01-26-2007, 06:56 PM   #50
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I think I'll wait to see who's getting rich from Global Warming before I cast my ballot on whether it's happening or not.
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Old 01-27-2007, 03:49 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by dchester on 01-26-2007 at 03:00 PM
We've had a couple other threads on this topic already. That film did absolutely nothing to explain why
the polar caps are also shrinking on Mars
, or why there appears to be climate change throughout the solar system
.
No, but what the film did explain was the direct correlation between the Earth's temperature and the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere measured over a period of 160,000 years.

And right now the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is reaching catastrophic levels.

Charles D. Keeling of the Scripps Institute of Oceanography, who has been studying atmospheric carbon dioxide for over 40 years, says: “At Mauna Loa Observatory, we started the measurements in March, 1957, and I expected the concentration would be perhaps almost dead constant, knowing nothing else as a hypothesis, but that wasn’t what happened. The concentration rose for several months, and then it dropped. And it dropped all during the period from May until September. And then it started to rise again... It was pretty obvious that we were looking at the breathing of the plants in the Northern Hemisphere because they absorb carbon dioxide during their growing period in temperate and high latitudes, and then it’s released again in a cyclic process in the wintertime.”

However, as Keeling studied the atmosphere over time, he found that a longer-term change was taking place. Year by year, more carbon dioxide was found in his samples. And although carbon dioxide has always been present in the atmosphere, human activity—primarily the burning of fossil fuels such as oil and coal—has been steadily adding to its atmospheric concentration:

“It’s hard for people to understand how much carbon dioxide is being put into the atmosphere in absolute terms, but in relative terms we can say as follows: At the end of World War II, about a billion metric tons of carbon, in the form of CO2 (carbon dioxide), was being emitted to the atmosphere. When I started my measurements, it had risen to two and a half. At the present time, it’s almost seven.”




http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/warming/stories/

http://www.exploratorium.edu/climate...ere/data3.html

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news...-buildup_x.htm

http://www.earth-policy.org/Updates/Update29.htm

Edit: Apologies to Peytonsux for wasting his 1000th post on a reply to mine.

Last edited by FORE!!!; 01-27-2007 at 05:28 PM..
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Old 01-28-2007, 02:44 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrWeekend on 01-25-2007 at 12:43 PM
Now I don't know whether Global Warmer is a fact or not. I'll let more wiser and smarter people than I figure that out. But, I do know one thing. On Jan. 25, here in southern NH, I saw a half dozen Robins hopping around my snowless backyard pecking for worms and grubs with the temp at 19 degrees. I thought that to be odd for this early in the year. Basically, I don't care about the Global Warming issue as I'll be dead and gone before any of it has an major impact on me.
The mild winter we've had, prior to the previous week or so, is easily explained by the El Nino that is presently underway

Below are the prediction maps for an El Nino based on what happened during the 20th Century.





Consider three climate "anomalies" that occurred this winter.

The Major blizzard in the high plains, the warm weather in the northern US, the ice storms in Texas.

All three are predicted in those two graphs.

As far as other climate impacts over the 20th century, a quick glance at the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO) shows a strong correlation with the trend of temperature change.



You'll note that the 1940's to the mid 70's were a negative phase of the NAO and that is the same time that the earth was actually cooling leading to predictions of a new ice age

So here we have two known natural climate cycles that can have significant impact on the climate, yet we insist that some other mechanism must be the cause?

Quote:
Originally posted by FORE!!! on 01-27-2007 at 03:49 PM
No, but what the film did explain was the direct correlation between the Earth's temperature and the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere measured over a period of 160,000 years.
And what Al forgot to mention is that the CO2 concentrationlagged behind the temperature change rather than preceded it

Quote:
In investigating this question, Siegenthaler et al. say they obtained the best correlation between CO2 and temperature "for a lag of CO2 of 1900 years." Specifically, over the course of glacial terminations V to VII, they indicate that "the highest correlation of CO2 and deuterium, with use of a 20-ky window for each termination, yields a lag of CO2 to deuterium of 800, 1600, and 2800 years, respectively." In addition, they note that "this value is consistent with estimates based on data from the past four glacial cycles," citing in this regard the work of Fischer et al. (1999), Monnin et al. (2001) and Caillon et al. (2003). Clearly, therefore, it is temperature that is the robust leader in this tightly-coupled relationship, while CO2 is but the humble follower, providing only a fraction (which could well be miniscule) - of the total glacial-to-interglacial temperature change.

This observation does little to inspire confidence in climate-alarmist claims that the CO2 produced by the burning of fossil fuels will lead to catastrophic temperature increases, which predicted warmings, in some of their scenarios, rival those experienced in glacial-to-interglacial transitions. Nevertheless, Siegenthaler et al. stubbornly state that the new findings "do not cast doubt ... on the importance of CO2 as a key amplification factor [our italics] of the large observed temperature variations of glacial cycles."
Couple this with the fact that the "global warming" has occurred at the same time as the earth's climate rebounded from the little ice age and all of the observed warming could just as easily be attributed to the ending of what ever set of natural phenomena that caused the little ice age in the first place.
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Old 02-02-2007, 07:21 PM   #53
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I hope this is the answer:

link

Live with climate change

By Patrick J. Michaels

It's hardly news that human beings have had a hand in the planetary warming that began more than 30 years ago. For nearly a century, scientists have known that increasing atmospheric carbon dioxide would eventually result in warming that was most pronounced in winter, especially on winter's coldest days, and a cooling of the stratosphere. All of these have been observed.

However, actually "doing something" about warming is a daunting endeavor. The journal Geophysical Research Letters estimated in 1997 that if every nation on Earth lived up to the United Nations' Kyoto Protocol on global warming, it would prevent no more than 0.126°F of warming every 50 years. Global temperature varies by more than that from year to year, so that's not even enough to measure. Climatically, Kyoto would do nothing.

In the past four years, the Senate has voted twice against "cap-and-trade" legislation - sponsored by New Mexico senators Jeff Bingaman (news, bio, voting record), a Democrat, and Pete Domenici (news, bio, voting record), a Republican - that would set quotas on carbon emissions and let companies buy and sell them. If adopted, their cap-and-trade law would reduce emissions by less than the Kyoto Protocol specifies. In other words, the Senate has been loath to even adopt something that does less than nothing.

The stark reality is that if we really want to alter the warming trajectory of the planet significantly, we have to cut emissions by an extremely large amount, and - a truth that everyone must know - we simply do not have the technology to do so. We would fritter away billions in precious investment capital in a futile attempt to curtail warming.

Consequently, the best policy is to live with some modest climate change now and encourage economic development, which will generate the capital necessary for investment in the more efficient technologies of the future.

Fortunately, we have more time than the alarmists suggest. The warming path of the planet falls at the lowest end of today's U.N. projections. In aggregate, our computer models tell us that once warming is established, it tends to take place at a constant, not an increasing, rate. Reassuringly, the rate has been remarkably constant, at 0.324°F per decade, since warming began around 1975. The notion that we must do "something in 10 years," repeated by a small but vocal band of extremists, enjoys virtually no support in the truly peer reviewed scientific literature.

Rather than burning our capital now for no environmental gain (did someone say "ethanol?"), let's encourage economic development so people can invest and profit in our more efficient future.

People who invested in automobile companies that developed hybrid technology have been rewarded handsomely in the past few years, and there's no reason to think environmental speculators won't be rewarded in the future, too.

Patrick J. Michaels is senior fellow in environmental studies at the Cato Institute and author of Meltdown: The Predictable Distortion of Global Warming by Scientists, Politicians, and the Media.
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:18 PM   #54
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It's the cattle's fault

Apparently, we've got it all wrong. Now the scientists claim that it's beef eaters causing most of the problem. All we need to do is become vegetarians to save the planet.
Quote:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0220/p03s01-ussc.html

Humans' beef with livestock: a warmer planet


American meat eaters are responsible for 1.5 more tons of carbon dioxide per person than vegetarians every year.
By Brad Knickerbocker | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

As Congress begins to tackle the causes and cures of global warming, the action focuses on gas-guzzling vehicles and coal-fired power plants, not on lowly bovines.

Yet livestock are a major emitter of greenhouse gases that cause climate change. And as meat becomes a growing mainstay of human diet around the world, changing what we eat may prove as hard as changing what we drive.

It's not just the well-known and frequently joked-about flatulence and manure of grass-chewing cattle that's the problem, according to a recent report by the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO). Land-use changes, especially deforestation to expand pastures and to create arable land for feed crops, is a big part. So is the use of energy to produce fertilizers, to run the slaughterhouses and meat-processing plants, and to pump water.

"Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today's most serious environmental problems," Henning Steinfeld, senior author of the report, said when the FAO findings were released in November.

Livestock are responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse-gas emissions as measured in carbon dioxide equivalent, reports the FAO. This includes 9 percent of all CO2 emissions, 37 percent of methane, and 65 percent of nitrous oxide. Altogether, that's more than the emissions caused by transportation.

The latter two gases are particularly troubling – even though they represent far smaller concentrations in atmosphere than CO2, which remains the main global warming culprit. But methane has 23 times the global warming potential (GWP) of CO2 and nitrous oxide has 296 times the warming potential of carbon dioxide.

Methane could become a greater problem if the permafrost in northern latitudes thaws with increasing temperatures, releasing the gas now trapped below decaying vegetation. What's more certain is that emissions of these gases can spike as humans consume more livestock products.

As prosperity increased around the world in recent decades, the number of people eating meat (and the amount one eats every year) has risen steadily. Between 1970 and 2002, annual per capita meat consumption in developing countries rose from 11 kilograms (24 lbs.) to 29 kilograms (64 lbs.), according to the FAO. (In developed countries, the comparable figures were 65 kilos and 80 kilos.) As population increased, total meat consumption in the developing world grew nearly five-fold over that period.

Beyond that, annual global meat production is projected to more than double from 229 million tons at the beginning of the decade to 465 million tons in 2050. This makes livestock the fastest growing sector of global agriculture.

Animal-rights activists and those advocating vegetarianism have been quick to pick up on the implications of the FAO report.

"Arguably the best way to reduce global warming in our lifetimes is to reduce or eliminate our consumption of animal products," writes Noam Mohr in a report for EarthSave International.

Changing one's diet can lower greenhouse gas emissions quicker than shifts away from fossil fuel burning technologies, Mr. Mohr writes, because the turnover rate for farm animals is shorter than that for cars and power plants.

"Even if cheap, zero-emission fuel sources were available today, they would take many years to build and slowly replace the massive infrastructure our economy depends upon today," he writes. "Similarly, unlike carbon dioxide which can remain in the air for more than a century, methane cycles out of the atmosphere in just eight years, so that lower methane emissions quickly translate to cooling of the earth."

Researchers at the University of Chicago compared the global warming impact of meat eaters with that of vegetarians and found that the average American diet – including all food processing steps – results in the annual production of an extra 1.5 tons of CO2-equivalent (in the form of all greenhouse gases) compared to a no-meat diet. Researchers Gidon Eshel and Pamela Martin concluded that dietary changes could make more difference than trading in a standard sedan for a more efficient hybrid car, which reduces annual CO2 emissions by roughly one ton a year.

"It doesn't have to be all the way to the extreme end of vegan," says Dr. Eshel, whose family raised beef cattle in Israel. "If you simply cut down from two burgers a week to one, you've already made a substantial difference."
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:49 PM   #55
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Old 02-22-2007, 09:41 AM   #56
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Look, guys and girls. The Earth's climate is NEVER stable. It is always warming or cooling.
Yes, we have contributed to CO2 in the atmosphere. Still, the atmosphere is only .04% CO2, a tiny and almost irrelevant amount. CO2 levels in the Earth's past have regularly fluctuated and has been far higher. The levels of CO2 today are irrelevant in greenhouse effect when compared to the level of water vapor(the PRIME greenhouse gas in our atmosphere) and the suns fluctuating output of energy, and well within normal variations.
I recall being in school in the 70's and being told we were approaching an ice age because the temperature of the earth was dropping. Obviously, an extreme interpretation and wrong.

The fact is, Global Warming has become a big time, big money industry, and there are a lot of "scientists" and "experts" who have made a lot of money and built careers researching climate, and their not about to give all that up easily.

Still, it's OK to be green, but DON'T PANIC!!!
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Old 02-22-2007, 12:14 PM   #57
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The problem is that "global warming" has become a political debate and the IMPORTANT ideas are completely forgotten about.

Are humans causing the earth's surface temperature to rise? WHO GIVES A SHIITE MUSLIM???

We can all agree on the following:

1) Dumping millions of tons of CO2 and other contaminants and pollution into the air we breathe CANNOT be good for us as humans.

2) As long as radical islamic states that sponsor terror have oil, and oil is valuable, terrorists have plenty of $$$$ to spend on killing us.


We need to speed up developing and implementing real alternative fuel sources to protect the air that we breathe and to stop putting money into the pockets of terrorists.

Simple as that. F*ck glcbal warming.
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Old 02-22-2007, 01:27 PM   #58
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Agreement tmack

The Middle East "Problem" would be quite manageable if not for our reliance on oil.

I think it would be something like

TO: Bankrupt Islamic Govenments of the Middle East

FR: The US

RE: We're out

Date: The day we don't need oil anymore

Well guys, you finally have what you claim to have wanted all along. The big bad imperialist satan is going away. That's the good news.

The bad, since we don't need your stinking oil anymore you cant even afford a decent tent to carry on the back of your camel, nevermind any kind of weapons, conventional or otherwise. Oh well, thems the breaks.

So here's the deal. We are leaving this stinking hell hole immediatly. See Ya.

Oh, by the way, we should mention we've given Isreal carte Blanche to use whatever shit they have in their arsenal to protect themselves from invasion. You might want to think twice before screwing with them.
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Old 02-22-2007, 03:09 PM   #59
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Well put, Tmack & BD. Thank you.
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Old 02-22-2007, 04:28 PM   #60
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Jaric is a splendid one to beholdJaric is a splendid one to beholdJaric is a splendid one to beholdJaric is a splendid one to beholdJaric is a splendid one to beholdJaric is a splendid one to beholdJaric is a splendid one to beholdJaric is a splendid one to beholdJaric is a splendid one to behold
I've always kinda believed it was extremely arrogant to believe that we will be the ones to kill the planet.

My guess is, that we will go before the earth does. And yeah, if we much things up really badly, it may need a couple of thousand years to take a vacation, but thats a fart in the wind in the grand timeline of the earth

Like Tmack said, there are plenty of other good reasons to take the steps to "avoid global warming" that have nothing to do with global warming itself.

Too bad there isn't a way to harness the awesome power of the sun for our energy needs. (takes off hippie hat)
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