>
Patriots Planet - New England Patriots Forums and Message Boards

Home Members List Top Posters Arcade Casino Toolbar
Go Back   Patriots Planet - New England Patriots Forums and Message Boards > The Razor > Politics and Religion Forum
Mark Forums Read rel="nofollow">Mark Forums Read
Register All Albums FAQDonate Calendar

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-10-2018, 09:53 PM   #61
O_P_T
Why Be Normal
 
O_P_T's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Windsor, CT
Posts: 20,434
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $790875
My Mood


O_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousy
O_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousy
BTW,

If the articles are not about contingency plans, but are about actually going to war, then, by definition, that is "intent" and your claim about not mentioning "intent" is null and void.
__________________
I AM PATRIOTS

"Some day I want to see them raise up on their piss-soaked hind legs and howl, "Jesus Christ, it's the Goddamned Patriots again and that son-of-a-f*cking-bitch Belichick".
Paraphrasing George S. Patton
  O_P_T is offline Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 11:11 AM   #62
Baron Samedi
Russian Bot 762X54R
 
Baron Samedi's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Framingham
Posts: 25,253
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $400425
My Mood


Baron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on money
Baron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on money
Trump: I 'have a very good relationship with Kim Jong Un'

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...th-kim-jong-un

Crisis averted. Now Trump and Kim Jong Boom are BFF's.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhamean View Post
Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
Peace, Prosperity, Liberty, Human Rights, Natural Rights, Civil Rights, Property Rights, Sound Money, Free Markets, Sovereignty, the Constitution, the Republic.

“Elections have consequences, and at the end of the day, I won. So I think on that one I trump you.”
  Baron Samedi is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2018, 08:18 AM   #63
Baron Samedi
Russian Bot 762X54R
 
Baron Samedi's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Framingham
Posts: 25,253
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $400425
My Mood


Baron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on money
Baron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on money
Pentagon Readies the ‘Father of All Bombs’ for Use Against North Korea

Last April, the US military detonated the “mother of all bombs”—a GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast (MOAB), with 18,000 pounds of explosives—over an ISIS tunnel complex in Afghanistan. This being the first use in combat of the giant MOAB, its use in Afghanistan generated widespread press attention. In many of the media commentaries, the GBU-43/B was described as the largest non-nuclear weapon in the US arsenal—as powerful, in fact, as the smallest nuclear weapons developed by the United States. In turns out, however, that the GBU-43/B is eclipsed by an even larger non-nuclear weapon, the 30,000-pound GBU-57 Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP), dubbed by some the “father of all bombs” to distinguish it from the MOAB. Originally designed to destroy underground nuclear facilities in Iran(Which can't be true, right, OPT? We never had "Plans to Bomb Irans", it was all just a conspiracy theory.), the GBU-57 is now being readied for use against North Korea.

It is no secret that the Defense Department is preparing for possible preventive attacks on North Korean nuclear and missile facilities, supposedly intended to prevent the Kim Jong-un regime in Pyongyang from developing an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) capable of delivering nuclear warheads to the continental United States. National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster has openly called for strikes of this sort, sometimes described as the “bloody nose” option. But any such scenario faces two major hurdles: First, a US strike could provoke massive retaliation by the North against South Korea and Japan, producing vast numbers of civilian casualties; and second, it could fail to destroy all of the North’s nuclear and missile facilities, most of which are thought to be hidden in deep underground shelters. So far as can be determined, the Pentagon has yet to come up with a viable response to the first of these (though it is continuing to search for one), but, with the GBU-57, it may have come up with a solution to the second.

It is impossible to minimize the risks of a first-strike “preventive” US attack on North Korea. Even if American air and missile attacks succeed in destroying many of North Korea’s long-range missiles, that country would still be capable, in all likelihood, of raining vast numbers of artillery shells and short-range missiles (some possibly armed with chemical weapons) on Seoul, located only a few dozen miles from the North Korean border, and on other heavily populated areas in Japan and South Korea—probably killing tens or hundreds of thousands of people (including many American soldiers and their dependents living there). This prospect has led some senior Pentagon officials—including, reportedly, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis—to caution the White House against ordering a preventive strike. Nevertheless, there are many indications that the Pentagon is putting in place the means to conduct such an attack—and recent enhancements to the GBU-57 bomb are among the most alarming of those.

The “father of all bombs” was originally developed on a crash basis during the Obama administration to provide the Pentagon with a non-nuclear weapon capable of destroying Iran’s underground nuclear installations. One of those facilities, the Fordow nuclear-enrichment plant, was located in a tunnel complex dug deep into the side of a mountain. Although President Obama was avidly seeking a diplomatic solution to Iran’s nuclear ambitions—ultimately succeeding in 2015, with the adoption of the Iran nuclear deal, formally known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action—his military advisers wanted to be able to destroy Fordow from the air in case the negotiations failed. The GBU-57 was their answer.

The GBU-57 is a 30,000-pound behemoth made by Boeing that can penetrate through hundreds of feet of rock and concrete before denotating its more than 5,300 pounds of high explosive. As described by the US Air Force, “the warhead case is made from a special high-performance steel alloy and its design allows for a large explosive payload while maintaining the integrity of the penetrator case during impact.” (You can’t make this jargon up!) The bomb is so heavy that only one US combat plane—the B-2 stealth bomber—is certified to carry it.

Even after the signing of the Iran nuclear deal in 2015, the Air Force continued to work on the GBU-57, seeking to improve its accuracy and destructive impact. By that point, attention was shifting from Iran to North Korea. As in Iran, the North Koreans have buried many of their key nuclear and missile facilities in fortified underground shelters, hoping to protect them from US air and missile strikes. To destroy those installations, any munitions employed by the United States (short of city-busting nuclear weapons) would have to possess both high penetration capacity and great accuracy, to ensure that the bomb’s explosive power was not misdirected.

In 2015, the Air Force tested the GBU-57 at White Sands Missile Range, dropping two bombs sequentially from a B-2 bomber to maximize their underground penetration. According to a report in The Wall Street Journal, “senior officials say the results show the bomb—when dropped one on top of the other—is now more capable of penetrating fortified nuclear facilities in Iran or in North Korea.”

With the possibility of war with North Korea looming ever greater, the Pentagon spent additional millions of dollars to improve the GBU-57’s accuracy and to assess its effectiveness in new tests at White Sands. Last May, according to a Pentagon report, “the Air Force successfully completed a three-weapon drop [of the GBU-57] from B-2 aircraft on a representative target,” demonstrating the bomb’s improved effectiveness. The installation of a more advanced guidance system on the bomb and the initiation of new tests were said to result from a “SECDEF [Secretary of Defense] special-interest effort,” suggesting direct intervention by Defense Secretary Mattis.

In November, the improved version of the GBU-57 was deemed ready for battlefield use, according to a Pentagon report cited by Anthony Capaccio of Bloomberg News. Then, in January, the Air Force transferred three B-2 stealth bombers and their crews from Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri to Andersen Air Force Base on Guam, in the Western Pacific. Although described as a normal rotational shift intended to showcase US airpower in the Pacific, it is impossible to view this move without considering possible plans for attacks on North Korea.

Designed to penetrate heavily defended enemy air space and deliver a range of conventional and nuclear weapons, the Northrop-Grumman B-2 “Spirit” is the most expensive aircraft in the US inventory, costing an estimated $1.2 billion each (some say much more). In any scenario involving a preemptive strike on North Korea, the B-2 would be expected to play a pivotal role, flying well into enemy airspace to deliver its payload on high-value targets, presumably underground nuclear and missile facilities. As the only bomber capable of delivering the GBU-57, their presence on Guam at this time is, to say the least, highly provocative. Asked by Bloomberg whether GBU-57s have been deployed to Guam along with the B-2s, the Air Force has refused to say, one way or the other.

It would be premature to say that a US attack on North Korea, of a sort advocated by General McMaster and others, is just around the corner. While the Defense Department has moved a wide range of offensive weapons, including B-1 and B-52 bombers (in addition to the B-2s), within easy striking range of the North, we do not yet see the full mobilization of forces and the evacuation of US dependents from South Korea that would signal an imminent outbreak of hostilities. Nevertheless, the fact that things have moved as far as they have—including the rushed enhancement of the “father of all bombs” for possible employment against the North—should have us all highly concerned.

With the Winter Olympics just about to begin, and South Korean President Moon Jae-in desperately striving to arrange peace talks with the North, this is the moment to speak out for de-escalation of the Korean crisis and the commencement of serious talks involving all key parties, including the United States, leading to a reduction in threatening arsenals and behaviors on all sides. Readers should also voice support for two bills currently before Congress, HR 4837, the “No Unconstitutional Strike against North Korea Act,” and its Senate version, S. 2016; both prohibit the president from launching a first strike against North Korea or otherwise engaging US armed forces in hostilities with the North without a declaration of war or explicit statutory authorization by Congress.

ttps://www.thenation.com/article/pentagon-readies-father-of-all-bombs-for-use-against-north-korea/

For the record, I would say that right about now might be a good time to rescind the AUMF and the War Powers Resolution.

Yeah....seems like a pretty good time to do it.

Maybe go back to what the Constitution says....that the power to make war resides in the legislature, not the Executive Branch, because the Executive Branch loves it too much. Sort of seems that way, doesn't it?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhamean View Post
Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
Peace, Prosperity, Liberty, Human Rights, Natural Rights, Civil Rights, Property Rights, Sound Money, Free Markets, Sovereignty, the Constitution, the Republic.

“Elections have consequences, and at the end of the day, I won. So I think on that one I trump you.”
  Baron Samedi is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2018, 01:47 PM   #64
anderson
Awfully Cavalier
 
anderson's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dappertutto, come un Capo
Posts: 28,284
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $627610
My Mood


anderson has much to be proud ofanderson has much to be proud ofanderson has much to be proud ofanderson has much to be proud ofanderson has much to be proud ofanderson has much to be proud ofanderson has much to be proud ofanderson has much to be proud ofanderson has much to be proud of
anderson has much to be proud ofanderson has much to be proud ofanderson has much to be proud ofanderson has much to be proud ofanderson has much to be proud ofanderson has much to be proud ofanderson has much to be proud of
Pretty sure the MOP was designed for use against Iraqi bunkers and not Iranian nuclear facilities. Small detail, I just wouldn't use the articles off-hand sentence as proof that the US had invasion/airstrike plans against Iran.
__________________
  anderson is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2018, 02:15 PM   #65
Baron Samedi
Russian Bot 762X54R
 
Baron Samedi's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Framingham
Posts: 25,253
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $400425
My Mood


Baron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on money
Baron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on money
Quote:
Originally Posted by anderson View Post
Pretty sure the MOP was designed for use against Iraqi bunkers and not Iranian nuclear facilities. Small detail, I just wouldn't use the articles off-hand sentence as proof that the US had invasion/airstrike plans against Iran.
The GBU-57 began development in 2004, after we had occupied Iraq, as a result of disappointing studies of the effectiveness of the bunker busters we used in Iraq.

In 2012 it went through a redesign to be more effective against "known targets", presumably Iran, I guess.

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...nd-bomb-03172/
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhamean View Post
Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
Peace, Prosperity, Liberty, Human Rights, Natural Rights, Civil Rights, Property Rights, Sound Money, Free Markets, Sovereignty, the Constitution, the Republic.

“Elections have consequences, and at the end of the day, I won. So I think on that one I trump you.”
  Baron Samedi is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2018, 07:40 PM   #66
O_P_T
Why Be Normal
 
O_P_T's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Windsor, CT
Posts: 20,434
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $790875
My Mood


O_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousy
O_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousyO_P_T makes Greek statues weep in jealousy
Quote:
Originally Posted by anderson View Post
Pretty sure the MOP was designed for use against Iraqi bunkers and not Iranian nuclear facilities. Small detail, I just wouldn't use the articles off-hand sentence as proof that the US had invasion/airstrike plans against Iran.
Don't waste your time.

The Baron is apparently incapable of differentiating between contingency planning and intent.

Let's assume that the MOP was developed precisely for attacking Iranian bunkers.

So what does that mean?

Does it mean, as the Baron suggests, that the US intended to launch a war against Iran?

No, not at all.

All it would mean, is that someone at the Pentagon did the following.

"Hey suppose we get into a situation where there is some international crisis where the other side had strategic targets buried in deep bunkers.

Do we have anything in the arsenal that would allow us to neutralize those targets?

No?

So if the POTUS asks us for any possible non-nuclear military options we'd have to say 'zip, nada, bupkis'?

Could we develop something that would give us such an option?

We can?

OK go ahead and see if we can make such a bomb."

According to the Baron's perspective, the mere fact that we developed such a weapon says something about it being used.

As I have always said in these discussions, that's nonsense.

All Executive agencies have looked at a host of possible scenarios and developed contingency plans, and if appropriate/necessary, obtained the equipment/items to implement said plans.

They do so because one of the first questions any POTUS is going to ask in a crisis is "What are my options?"

Any agency head who says "gee not much we don't have any plans or don't have the material/items to implement our plans" should have their ass fired and be ridiculed for dereliction of duty.

It is their duty to have multiple options, and to be able to explain the cost and benefits, potential or known, for any course of action.

That's all that is going on here.

NK has a boatload of strategic assets in deep underground bunkers and so the MOP is certainly one possible option in a crisis.

Of course, it also quite possible that this is mere posturing, in a similar fashion to the 3 carrier strike group exercise I posted earlier.

Letting NK that we have a big stick and that their bunkers may not provide as secure a refuge for their strategic assets as they think.

If they think these assets are immune form anything other than a full scale nuclear attack, that emboldens them, sot some extent.

If they are not so sure about how secure they are, that puts some doubt in their mind and makes them less bold.

This is another fact of international negotiations that the Baron seems incapable of grasping.
__________________
I AM PATRIOTS

"Some day I want to see them raise up on their piss-soaked hind legs and howl, "Jesus Christ, it's the Goddamned Patriots again and that son-of-a-f*cking-bitch Belichick".
Paraphrasing George S. Patton
  O_P_T is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 11:35 AM   #67
BostonBlackie
Banned
 

Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Natick, Ma
Posts: 828
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $20250


BostonBlackie is the shiznitBostonBlackie is the shiznitBostonBlackie is the shiznitBostonBlackie is the shiznitBostonBlackie is the shiznitBostonBlackie is the shiznitBostonBlackie is the shiznitBostonBlackie is the shiznitBostonBlackie is the shiznit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
Pentagon Readies the ‘Father of All Bombs’ for Use Against North Korea

.......................... As the only bomber capable of delivering the GBU-57, their presence on Guam at this time is, to say the least, highly provocative. Asked by Bloomberg whether GBU-57s have been deployed to Guam along with the B-2s, the Air Force has refused to say, one way or the other.

It would be premature to say that a US attack on North Korea, of a sort advocated by General McMaster and others, is just around the corner. While the Defense Department has moved a wide range of offensive weapons, including B-1 and B-52 bombers (in addition to the B-2s), within easy striking range of the North, we do not yet see the full mobilization of forces and the evacuation of US dependents from South Korea that would signal an imminent outbreak of hostilities. Nevertheless, the fact that things have moved as far as they have—including the rushed enhancement of the “father of all bombs” for possible employment against the North—should have us all highly concerned.

..........................

ttps://www.thenation.com/article/pentagon-readies-father-of-all-bombs-for-use-against-north-korea/

For the record, I would say that right about now might be a good time to rescind the AUMF and the War Powers Resolution.

Yeah....seems like a pretty good time to do it.

Maybe go back to what the Constitution says....that the power to make war resides in the legislature, not the Executive Branch, because the Executive Branch loves it too much. Sort of seems that way, doesn't it?

How stupid would the DOD look if they didn't move the correct pieces into place?
  BostonBlackie is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 02:53 PM   #68
Baron Samedi
Russian Bot 762X54R
 
Baron Samedi's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Framingham
Posts: 25,253
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $400425
My Mood


Baron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on money
Baron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on moneyBaron Samedi should have their picture on money
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBlackie View Post
How stupid would the DOD look if they didn't move the correct pieces into place?
You mean like the Gulf of Tonkin...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhamean View Post
Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
Peace, Prosperity, Liberty, Human Rights, Natural Rights, Civil Rights, Property Rights, Sound Money, Free Markets, Sovereignty, the Constitution, the Republic.

“Elections have consequences, and at the end of the day, I won. So I think on that one I trump you.”
  Baron Samedi is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 03:31 PM   #69
BostonBlackie
Banned
 

Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Natick, Ma
Posts: 828
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $20250


BostonBlackie is the shiznitBostonBlackie is the shiznitBostonBlackie is the shiznitBostonBlackie is the shiznitBostonBlackie is the shiznitBostonBlackie is the shiznitBostonBlackie is the shiznitBostonBlackie is the shiznitBostonBlackie is the shiznit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
You mean like the Gulf of Tonkin...
No, you mean like the Gulf of Tonkin.
  BostonBlackie is offline Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Template-Modifications by TMS
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Patriots Planet is not affiliated with the NFL or with the New England Patriots. The views and opinions on this forum do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the owners and/or operators of this forum and website.