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Old 08-03-2004, 07:40 AM   #46
Flagg the Wanderer
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Trust me, guys, you don't want townes talking politics.

He makes Karl Marx and Peter Singer look like right wingers...and he's a true believer.

What's that saying? A fanatic is someone who can't change their mind, and won't change the subject.

Let it lie, and let townsie talk football (and do some troll-baiting.)

Last edited by Flagg the Wanderer; 08-03-2004 at 09:44 AM..
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Old 08-03-2004, 09:04 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by spiderman

I've explained before why I won't see this movie, but let me ask you a question.

Why do you value Moore's opinion with regards to economics, foreign policy, and business, so much???
I don't actually really understand your question. I guess I don't really understand what it means to "value an opinion". I spent $18 so that my son and I could see Fahrenheit 9/11, which I thought was outrageous. It's true I would not go to see a movie made by Bill O'Reilly. Someone once gave me one of Anne Coulter's books, and I took it to the dump (and not to be sent to Africa).

I don't agree with everything that Michael Moore says but I guess I do value his opinion more than Anne Coulter's. Fahrenheit 9/11 merely reinforces views I have already had. If Michael Moore was a Bush supporter like Dennis Miller, I am sure I would think he was a moron, as I think Dennis Miller is. But if Dennis Miller were a Bush-basher, I am sure I would like him.
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Old 08-03-2004, 09:05 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flagg Wanderer
Trust me, guys, you don't want townes talking politics.

He makes Karl Marx and Peter Sanger look like right wingers...and he's a true believer.

What's that saying? A fanatic is someone who can't change their mind, and won't change the subject.
Well-said. That is exactly why I am voting for Commander Flip-flopper, and not Bush or Bin-Laden!
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Old 08-03-2004, 09:42 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by thomas144
Well-said. That is exactly why I am voting for Commander Flip-flopper, and not Bush or Bin-Laden!
As I say, I don't mind changing your mind for good reason, but I do object to testing the wind before stating a position.

Do you think Bin Laden will make it onto many ballots?
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Old 08-03-2004, 11:50 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by thomas144
I don't actually really understand your question. I guess I don't really understand what it means to "value an opinion". I spent $18 so that my son and I could see Fahrenheit 9/11, which I thought was outrageous. It's true I would not go to see a movie made by Bill O'Reilly. Someone once gave me one of Anne Coulter's books, and I took it to the dump (and not to be sent to Africa).

I don't agree with everything that Michael Moore says but I guess I do value his opinion more than Anne Coulter's. Fahrenheit 9/11 merely reinforces views I have already had. If Michael Moore was a Bush supporter like Dennis Miller, I am sure I would think he was a moron, as I think Dennis Miller is. But if Dennis Miller were a Bush-basher, I am sure I would like him.
I can see that we aren't going to get anywhere with this.

All I'm trying to say is that there are other people besides, Michael Moore, Dennis Miller, Bill O'Reilly, and Ann Coulter, who actually know what they are talking about. In fact, you shouldn't be reading or listening to any of them, unless it is for pure entertainment.

For example, what I will do, is I will read Tommy Franks book about the Iraq war, because he is a retired General with no political aspirations, or special interest groups to protect, and most importantly, he was THERE! Hopefully he doesn't disappoint.
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Old 08-03-2004, 12:02 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by spiderman

For example, what I will do, is I will read Tommy Franks book about the Iraq war, because he is a retired General with no political aspirations, or special interest groups to protect, and most importantly, he was THERE! Hopefully he doesn't disappoint.
I can highly recommend Richard Clarke's book, which could and probably should be used as a high school textbook on U.S. foreign policy with respect to the mideast and terrorism in general.
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Old 08-03-2004, 12:07 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by thomas144
I can highly recommend Richard Clarke's book, which could and probably should be used as a high school textbook on U.S. foreign policy with respect to the mideast and terrorism in general.
AHHHH!!!

You're not listening to me...

How can you recommend a book to me that was written by a guy with an agenda!!!

Forget it, just forget...I'm going back to talking about sports.

Say what you will I'm all done.
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Old 08-03-2004, 01:16 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by thomas144
If Michael Moore was a Bush supporter like Dennis Miller, I am sure I would think he was a moron, as I think Dennis Miller is. But if Dennis Miller were a Bush-basher, I am sure I would like him. [/B]
I enjoy watching both Michael Moore and Dennis Miller. Miller's gotten more right wing over the years, but I think he's hilarious. I'd love it if he was still on MNF - I'd stay tuned in to blow out games just to watch Madden react to him.
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Old 08-03-2004, 01:52 PM   #54
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I was pretty much turned off of Moore after Roger and Me, and it's gone downhill ever since.

The guy has talent as a film-maker, but sadly wastes it (imo). I'd probably be able to deal with him better if he didn't strike me as someone who's only concern is number 1. He twists and maniuplates facts into sensationalist propaganda, and has the gall to call his work documentary.

For the record, I am not a Bush supporter. I'm unhappy with the job he has done in the last few years. Even as such, I still think Michael Moore is a waste of air, a poster child for retro-active abortion, and a propaganda pimp. He ranks right up there with the Iraqi Information Minister.

Last edited by Moebius; 08-03-2004 at 02:01 PM..
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Old 08-03-2004, 02:25 PM   #55
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How about something that is undeniable....Michael Moore is fat and disheveled....

His films- Interesting (not necessarily accurate)
His Motives- Clear

I don't see the need for people to be so outraged by his propaganda. I think part of the problem is that so many of our opinions are rarely our own. Moore's motives are obvious here, an ones inability to filter out the fluff is more the problem than anything else.
To refer to the guy as an "idiot" is a little rediculous. He creatively delveloped a way to bring his opinions to mass audiences, in a form that truly denies viewers the ability to change the channel, turn off the radio, or put down the newspaper. I think this is what pisses people of more than anything, and in some ways scares them. If you are a George Bush supporter, one should fear such a focused message. Not because of its incredbily anti-Bush tones, but more for the means in which it was viewed.
What scares me about this is that Michael Moore or other individuals can use these means to promote other issues that are far more reasons for public concern.
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Old 08-03-2004, 02:51 PM   #56
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Old 08-03-2004, 05:04 PM   #57
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First of all, the moderators here and a number of posters at this site have made me welcome here, and i appreciate that.

Second-Past experience has taught me that mixing in politics and football leads to some really nasty exchanges and grudges over the long haul. It's easier when there are a full mix of NFL fans, because then you aren't just arguing "within the family."

Third-I don't think it's fair to those who come here simply to discuss football to have to put up with politics, and threads titled "Micheal Moore is a Fat Pig" and "Bush is a Drunk and a Liar" essentially inflame people who disagree but don't want to discuss politics.

Fourth-I'm far from a fanatic. I'm as left wing as Micheal Moore, but I believe in a mix of socialism (health care, child care, and higher education available for all) and capitalism ( a free market that doesn't give all the advantages to major corporations and supports smaller and local business interests, and protects worker rights and conditions) I believed attacking Afghanistan was completely justified, and believe in fixing Iraq before leaving it, despite having been opposed to the war to begin with. I believe that corporations should be taxed for outsourcing and trade treaties should be enforced-as well as a guaranteed living wage for working americans. I believe the environment is being trashed and we should enforce laws and encourage treaties to preserve it, as well as a national goal of eliminating dependence on foreign oil in the next ten years. I oppose abortion personally, but don't believe my value system should be imposed upon others. I believe the U.S. is an important part of the world community, and not it's ruler, and it's time to stop pretending we are. People without shelter should have a place to go, people without food should have a place to eat.


If these things make me a "fanatic" then i guess that's what i am.



That's what i believe in, take it whatever way you want, and i'll try to stay out of further political discussion.
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Old 08-03-2004, 05:32 PM   #58
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Look, townes is bending over backwards to stay out of it, so I would appreciate it if people didn't to bait him into the convo.

Nothing good can come out of trying provoke somebody (albeit in an indirect way) to participate.

I think Townes has made his point clear here so please let it lie.

This is like that line from the Godfather:

Every time I try to get out, they pull me back in.

Enough already.
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Old 08-04-2004, 12:19 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by townes
Yep, and in my second post i clarified my position, and the last one contains NOTHING political-go check it out.

As I said, i'll try to keep my politics out of this forum, but you can keep on namecalling if you want, maybe then i'll simply say f*ck it and let loose.
I hope you don't think I was calling you a name. I merely posed a question of interest as it pertains to this discussion.

I personally don't like Michael Moore, but at the same time, I think we all make mistakes. Please don't be offended, as I simply was trying to make a point, not name call.

As for your political views, wouldn't it be nice if there was a candidate who came out with his or her views and actually meant it? Not just the front runner for a party with special interest groups backing them and swaying their every decision for financial reasons? That is why I don't believe the party system works as it is in place now.

By the way Bionic, this was a bit of a firestorm, but a great way to let off some last minute steam before the season starts. Lots of views on this one, good job!
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Old 08-04-2004, 01:31 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by runnerone


By the way Bionic, this was a bit of a firestorm, but a great way to let off some last minute steam before the season starts. Lots of views on this one, good job!
What can I say..I am republican
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