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Old 08-20-2004, 01:00 PM   #1
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Has Campaign Finance Reform...

...turned into a disaster?
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Old 08-20-2004, 02:54 PM   #2
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They all talk out of thier butts.
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Old 08-20-2004, 03:43 PM   #3
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Re: Has Campaign Finance Reform...

Quote:
Originally posted by spiderman
...turned into a disaster?
Quote:
Originally posted by Ballbustah
They all talk out of thier butts.
Yes to both.

The real question is, how do you close Pandora's box? Our Supreme Court has said "money equals free speech", so there is no easy way to stop some gazillionaire from spending as much as he wants on messages for any candidate or cause he wishes. This is the loophole these so-called independant (527) groups are using.

In the past, wealthy contributors gave money to the candidates, who at least tried to maintain the appearance of taste and reason in their ads. But now, anything goes as long as it's done by one of these independent groups.

I'm a strong supporter of free speech, especially when it concerns people talking about politicians. But I'm almost at the point where I'd support some of the really strict libel and slander laws, like they have in Europe.

Anyone have any better ideas how to deal with it?
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Old 08-24-2004, 12:58 PM   #4
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Re: Re: Has Campaign Finance Reform...

Quote:
Originally posted by dchester
Anyone have any better ideas how to deal with it?
No. You can't restrict people's right to form a group and buy air time. It's a sh!tty loophole, but you simply can't close it without trampling on the First Amendment.

I guess we're all just going to have to trust the American People to filter through truth vs. spin vs. flat out fiction.
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Old 08-29-2004, 02:19 PM   #5
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The first amendment has already been trampled on. Activist groups like the NRA and NOW have a gag order for the period of two months up to an election. These organizations represent Americans who no longer have that voice for probably the two most important months in an election cycle.
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Old 08-31-2004, 11:35 AM   #6
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Re: Re: Has Campaign Finance Reform...

Quote:
Originally posted by dchester
Anyone have any better ideas how to deal with it?
Sure.

Eliminate all limits on contributions to the parties and candidates.

However, make it manditory that the parties and candidates publicly reveal where the money has come from.

In additon, make it mandatory for any third party groups to reveal their funding.

The whole justifcation for the limits was to prevent various interest groups secretely funding elections and therefore having the candidate owe them a favor.

If all this information is open to the public, then candidate A can make an issue of who is funding candidate B.

If the public doesn't like this, they can make their opinion known with their vote.

This will also cut the legs out from third party groups.

Why would someone give money to a thrird party group if they can give it to the candidate?

If nearly all the money goes to the candidates and parties, then they will be creating and running the vast majority of the adds.

If an attack add is run, they won't be able to deny responsibility.
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Old 08-31-2004, 12:08 PM   #7
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Re: Re: Re: Has Campaign Finance Reform...

Quote:
Originally posted by O_P_T
Sure.

Eliminate all limits on contributions to the parties and candidates.

However, make it manditory that the parties and candidates publicly reveal where the money has come from.

In additon, make it mandatory for any third party groups to reveal their funding.

The whole justifcation for the limits was to prevent various interest groups secretely funding elections and therefore having the candidate owe them a favor.

If all this information is open to the public, then candidate A can make an issue of who is funding candidate B.

If the public doesn't like this, they can make their opinion known with their vote.

This will also cut the legs out from third party groups.

Why would someone give money to a thrird party group if they can give it to the candidate?

If nearly all the money goes to the candidates and parties, then they will be creating and running the vast majority of the adds.

If an attack add is run, they won't be able to deny responsibility.
OPT, I actually like your solution. If nothing else, it would be more honest and open than what we have now.


BTW, Have you given any thought to a solution for the Arab Israeli conflict?

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Old 08-31-2004, 01:24 PM   #8
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Re: Re: Re: Has Campaign Finance Reform...

Quote:
Originally posted by Flagg Wanderer
[BI guess we're all just going to have to trust the American People to filter through truth vs. spin vs. flat out fiction. [/B]
That pretty much sums up the whole problem to me. Think of the people that you come across in your day-to-day life. What percentage of them are remotely capable of reaching an intelligent conclusion that isn't hand fed to them in sound bytes?

I can't blame the politicians for taking advantage of the situation. Like Bill Belichick, they are masters of identifying and exploiting weaknesses. More and more, our nation's weakness is the growing population of ignorant, stupid people. The idiots make up the largest voting bloc, so that's where both parties focus their attention.

My ideal solution would be some type of exam in order to qualify to vote. The intent of the exam would not be to exclude anyone for having a particular viewpoint...no matter how whacky. It would simply test that a voter had basic reasoning skills, along with a rudimentary understanding of the Constitution and the mechanism of government.

At the very least, it should disqualify anyone that doesn't have enough brains to follow the instructions to punch a freakin' hole in the ballot.
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Old 08-31-2004, 04:00 PM   #9
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Has Campaign Finance Reform...

Quote:
Originally posted by dropKickMurphy
That pretty much sums up the whole problem to me. Think of the people that you come across in your day-to-day life. What percentage of them are remotely capable of reaching an intelligent conclusion that isn't hand fed to them in sound bytes?

I can't blame the politicians for taking advantage of the situation. Like Bill Belichick, they are masters of identifying and exploiting weaknesses. More and more, our nation's weakness is the growing population of ignorant, stupid people. The idiots make up the largest voting bloc, so that's where both parties focus their attention.

My ideal solution would be some type of exam in order to qualify to vote. The intent of the exam would not be to exclude anyone for having a particular viewpoint...no matter how whacky. It would simply test that a voter had basic reasoning skills, along with a rudimentary understanding of the Constitution and the mechanism of government.

At the very least, it should disqualify anyone that doesn't have enough brains to follow the instructions to punch a freakin' hole in the ballot.
This is why I oppose things like "Rock the Vote".

I don't necessarily think that voter apathy is an entirely bad thing. IMO, If you don't pay attention to politics and world events...DON'T VOTE!!! I don't care how much MTV tries to tell you it's the RIGHT thing to do...it isn't!
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Old 09-01-2004, 01:53 PM   #10
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Thumbs up Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Has Campaign Finance Reform...

Quote:
Originally posted by spiderman
This is why I oppose things like "Rock the Vote".

I don't necessarily think that voter apathy is an entirely bad thing. IMO, If you don't pay attention to politics and world events...DON'T VOTE!!! I don't care how much MTV tries to tell you it's the RIGHT thing to do...it isn't!
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