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Old 12-13-2018, 08:36 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none.
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:38 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
We were able to be allies with the Soviets for the simple reason that the Nazi's were worse.
Well Germany also declared war on us and was allied with the country who attacked us. That more or less decided what team we'd be on during the war.
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Old 12-14-2018, 07:43 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Well Germany also declared war on us and was allied with the country who attacked us. That more or less decided what team we'd be on during the war.
If we followed the suggestions in the OP article, we would have refused to ally with the Soviets since they were just about as bad as anything on the planet, with the exception of the Nazi's and the Japanese.

Yet we did ally with them.

If it is acceptable to get in bed with Stalin, then clearly there is no absolute moral evaluation about whom we can and cannot become allies with.

It's all about who the other son of a bitch is.

If the other one is worse, or poses more of a risk, then we can become allies with anyone.

Period.

That eviscerates the absolute judgement of allies the article suggests.
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Old 12-15-2018, 07:56 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
If we followed the suggestions in the OP article, we would have refused to ally with the Soviets since they were just about as bad as anything on the planet, with the exception of the Nazi's and the Japanese.

Yet we did ally with them.

If it is acceptable to get in bed with Stalin, then clearly there is no absolute moral evaluation about whom we can and cannot become allies with.

It's all about who the other son of a bitch is.

If the other one is worse, or poses more of a risk, then we can become allies with anyone.

Period.


That eviscerates the absolute judgement of allies the article suggests.
There's your problem right there(said in a southern mechanics voice). Who decides the better entity. Example: Who decided that the President of Ukraine, Yanukovych needed to be ousted with an assist by US. This is what instigated the Russian takeover and annexation of Crimea, which is the home of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.
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Old 12-15-2018, 12:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
If we followed the suggestions in the OP article, we would have refused to ally with the Soviets since they were just about as bad as anything on the planet, with the exception of the Nazi's and the Japanese.

Yet we did ally with them.

If it is acceptable to get in bed with Stalin, then clearly there is no absolute moral evaluation about whom we can and cannot become allies with.

It's all about who the other son of a bitch is.

If the other one is worse, or poses more of a risk, then we can become allies with anyone.

Period.

That eviscerates the absolute judgement of allies the article suggests.
I think you may possibly have misunderstood the argument.

The argument is to defend American security interests period and and as i understand it US interests included kicking the crap out of a nation that declared war on us.

Yes we allied with the Soviets to destroy Germany even though they were out to conquer the world and destroy free countries. However once it was done the alliance was pretty much over. Unlike our muddled long term alliances in the middle east etc..




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Old 12-15-2018, 01:20 PM   #21
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I'm not sure I explained myself right. Sorry I went to bed at 6 am and got up at 9.

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Old 12-15-2018, 03:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
We've been though this before.

You apparently have an "isolationist" perspective, that is, you only deem something a threat when it actually impacts directly the 50 States of the US.
You have a very strange definition of "Isolationist", being that not bombing people, invading people, or interfering in their internal affairs = "isolationist".

I'm perfectly happy to trade with any country. I'm just less interested in militaristic ventures for corporate interests. That, in your world, makes me isolationist. It's a silly point of view, to be honest.

---------- Post added at 03:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:17 PM ----------

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A lot of this could be solved if we just unilterally invaded these countries and turned them into protectorates or territories, installed American law with reasonable consideration made for local customs and culture, and literally stick to it until it works or every single one of their people is dead...That's the only way to fix it. Otherwise, we would be better off staying out of the Middle East.
How'd that work out for the British?
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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