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Old 09-10-2019, 06:58 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by patswin View Post
With respect to the events of September 11, I find it more meaningful to think of the people I knew and lost that day and remember them, not to mention thousands of others. It's a lot more important than arguing over silly conspiracy theories.
The theory was the [OFFICIAL STORY]...but, I get your point.
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:29 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patswin View Post
With respect to the events of September 11, I find it more meaningful to think of the people I knew and lost that day and remember them, not to mention thousands of others. It's a lot more important than arguing over silly conspiracy theories.
I get this and respect it.

But more and more Mueller seems to have seriously questionable actions in each and every situation that arises.

His body of work should be thoroughly investigated.

To not do so could be tantamount to letting him get away with guilty actions that may have excused the deaths of the very loved ones you choose to remember.
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:57 PM   #228
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The death count is currently still ongoing. 22 or so soldiers kill themselves everyday from the pointless war in the middle east. Millions of died so far.

It is sad...I do agree with that part.
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:28 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
Obviously, you didn't watch the presentation, because he covers what NIST modelling was lacking, and what the differences were.

Furthermore, the full report when it is released will, no doubt, go more in depth.

What the test DID show was that the NIST report on the cause of the collapse was impossible.

A concrete and steel building, collapsing at free fall speed, into it's own footprint, from office fires, creating a simultaneous failure of all internal columns (required for it to fall into it's own footprint), is impossible.

And yes, I disregard climate models because they are 100% wrong 100% of the time. It's pretty simple. That's a proven and demonstrable track record.

Architectural and engineering models are a bit more reliable and well tested than climate models are. They are actually proven and have been used for at least 20 years.

To compare civil engineering models to climate change models is absurd, and you know that. "Climate models are inaccurate and untrustworthy, therefore all computer models are inaccurate, including industry standard engineering models" has to be one of the dumbest arguments you've ever presented if you think about it.
Those models are used to design how to make building stand up, not how to figure out how they fall down.

In addition, they incorporate safety margins to ensure the buildings stand up.

So they calculate that structure A has to be made of X, with a safety factor of Y, to support the structure they are designing.

If it looks at any transient or accident scenarios, they are only those they decided to model using parameters they decided to put in the model.

Have they considered all possibilities? Have they selected the parameters appropriately?

I can prove categorically that they don't.

The Hyatt Regency Hotel in Kansas City walkway collapse in 1981 happened for one primary reason.

People were dancing on the walkway and so induced a resonance in the structure.

The issue of resonance induced issues had been known since 1831, and it's why soldiers break cadence when they march across bridges.

Oh and if these architectural models have been so successful for 20 odd years, how come the Millennium Bridge in London had the same issue in 2000?

Resonance is just one item that is not handled well in any modeling situation, since such a driving force is a variable and not readily predicted as a situation to address.

There are countless other variables in a failure scenario, that can't be fully predicted.

So to assume that because their model found a different answer means they "proved" anything, is absurd.

Consider what NIST said about their analysis.

Quote:
"Our study found that the fires in WTC 7, which were uncontrolled but otherwise similar to fires experienced in other tall buildings, caused an extraordinary event," said NIST WTC Lead Investigator Shyam Sunder. "Heating of floor beams and girders caused a critical support column to fail, initiating a fire-induced progressive collapse that brought the building down."

"Video and photographic evidence combined with detailed computer simulations show that neither explosives nor fuel oil fires played a role in the collapse of WTC 7," Sunder said.
Huh, computer simulations.

Well then they have to be correct, right? I mean, Architectural and engineering models are reliable right?

So why is Model A wrong and model B right?

You have no idea, since you don't know what was different between the two models.

But since someone else did some modeling and got a different answer, one you had already decided was "The Truth", well then, that one "Proves" that what you've said all along is in fact correct.

As you say, they are releasing their detailed report. Once that is available, others will be able to look under the hood and find out what they did differently, from NIST, et al.

Until then, nothing is "proved".
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:02 PM   #230
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Just wondered if anyone else was shedding tears today.
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:37 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by AnOldTroll View Post
Just wondered if anyone else was shedding tears today.
I was.
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:46 PM   #232
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I almost when I read about this story on this picture.
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Old 09-12-2019, 03:57 PM   #233
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I almost when I read about this story on this picture.
Link to story?

Thanks
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Old 09-12-2019, 04:09 PM   #234
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Link to story?

Thanks
Itís a great story I have link Iíll post later
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:32 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patswin View Post
Itís a great story I have link Iíll post later
I did some googling and found two.

Here's the first.

Quote:
Itís difficult for me to talk about the terrorist attacks that occurred 14 years ago on September 11th, 2001. Not because I was there (though I know several people who were), I just watched from home in horror. But I find it difficult to talk about because I donít want to appear like Iím exploiting the tragedy for personal gain. However, this is not one of those posts, and this is not one of those photos.

Shared by J&P Cycles on Facebook earlier this morning, NYFD Tim Duffy is seen on his Harley-Davidson arriving on the scene in downtown New York City shortly after the collapse of Tower 1. Itís an impressive shot that accurately shows what many first responders had to go into on that day.

Unlike so many stories from the day, Mr. Duffyís daughter shared that her father is alive and well on the photoís Flickr page. Shortly after this photo was taken, Duffy dismounted his bike and ran into the stairwell of the south tower to try to save lives.

Motorcycles were almost a necessity that day, as traffic was brought to a standstill. The Harley was the right choice to quickly get downtown and into the chaos. Who knows how many lives Mr. Duffy saved that day, but thanks to his Harley it might just have been a few more.
here's the second.

Quote:
jhudocumentary

Firefighter Tim Duffy arrives downtown on his Harley after first tower collapse, 9/11/2001.

The scene nearly resembles that of a Hollywood set: a firefighter on a red Harley rides down Broad St., through a terrain of rubble, leaving a cloud of dust left in his path as he searches for survivors. I can almost expect to hear ďCut!Ē shouted from behind, and zoom out to see a whole studio crew with lights and cameras. Tragically, we all know this photograph, though surreal, is actual. For me, what brings genuineness to this photo most of all are its imperfections. Given enough time, the photographer would likely have changed his lens for one that would give him less distortion at this wide angle. But itís his haste, shown through this fault, that authenticates the moment as an natural, unanticipated instant of such a momentous day.

Here, the streets of Lower Manhattan are left desolate: only debris and ash remain. Once-imposing skyscrapers are totally occluded by the toxic dust as it floods out of Ground Zero. Above the blacked-out windows, we see awnings of familiar restaurants¨ Ė somewhere, that on any other day, you might have stopped by to enjoy a coffee. This pulls right into the scene, making it our own. Even down to the smallest details, though caught only by chance, the red traffic light only helps to elevate the firefighterís sense of urgency.

I find this to be an incredibly powerful image, eternalizing one of the many emotions of that earth-shattering morning. While everyone else has fled, heroes like Tim Duffy were heading right for the epicenter of destruction.

taraduffy
That photo was taken while Tim Duffy was riding through the dust and debree of the south tower and when he dismounted from his bike he then started running towards the south tower and making his way to the tower. He was pumbled by the falling peices of the collapsing tower.
How do ik no this, well i live with this man he's 52 years old now and my father, and he just wants everyone to no this photo is 100% percent real and he is alive and well
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:13 PM   #236
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anyone have insomnia and listen to coast to coast last night? damn.
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:28 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
I did some googling and found two.

Here's the first.



here's the second.

A little more to add, the second tower collapse actually fell on him some.



Quote:
On 9/11 during the attacks on the World Trade Center, Duffy rode to the scene on his red motorcycle. On his way, the second plane hit the North Tower, and it fell where Duffy was riding, burying him.



ďIt was actually the first time in my career that I gave myself up for dead,Ē Duffy said.
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