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Old 12-19-2012, 01:56 PM   #766
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Originally Posted by tehrick67 View Post
And Midgar has all the answers, and this is when the thread goes bad.
Who said I had all the answers? Its fine for you to throw your opinion out but I cannot? I get told I am wrong? That seems fair. Its ok for you to make your thoughts on this but I cannot? Who have I told they were wrong, yet I have been told twice in the last few posts?
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:58 PM   #767
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Originally Posted by midgar8784 View Post
How am I wrong? People ignore mental illness all the time, its not something new. What am I wrong about exactly? That this kid did not have severe mental disorders? No I think I am right about that one, did he get enough help? Obviously not...so please tell me what I am wrong about?
I tihnk the point is CKA is saying you are wrong in thinking we (those posting in this thread) are blaming anyone but the shooter.

we are also trying to figure out how the thought process is for those who suffer AND those who live with the ones in need of some sort of help.


I do not think she is saying your points are wrong


but I could be wrong.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:58 PM   #768
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Originally Posted by tehrick67 View Post
And Midgar has all the answers, and this is when the thread goes bad.
No kidding! I don't know why I even try...
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:58 PM   #769
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Originally Posted by midgar8784 View Post
Who said I had all the answers? Its fine for you to throw your opinion out but I cannot? I get told I am wrong? That seems fair. Its ok for you to make your thoughts on this but I cannot? Who have I told they were wrong, yet I have been told twice in the last few posts?
You're the one telling others they're wrong.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:58 PM   #770
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Originally Posted by tehrick67 View Post
the ones I bolded. How do you know what was obvious in this kids life?

And yes, people can snap without showing signs. What sign did this kid show he was going to snap that people missed?
You do not become depressed/homicidal/sociopathic in one day...no, you do not just snap. There are tons of signs, people either see them and get help, or some ignore them. Mental illness is one of the most ignored things in the world, there are still insurance plans that do not even cover it.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:59 PM   #771
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You're the one telling others they're wrong.
Show me the post I said someone was wrong, I can show you two where I was told I was wrong.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:01 PM   #772
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Originally Posted by mikiemo83 View Post
I tihnk the point is CKA is saying you are wrong in thinking we (those posting in this thread) are blaming anyone but the shooter.

we are also trying to figure out how the thought process is for those who suffer AND those who live with the ones in need of some sort of help.


I do not think she is saying your points are wrong


but I could be wrong.

Its easy to blame the shooter...and ignore everything else, but that really does not help the problem in the future, thats what people did for so long and its why this happens more and more. As I said, there are still insurance programs that do not even cover mental health. I am not saying its easy to see, or even that its easy to get treatment, but that is where things are being missed.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:02 PM   #773
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Originally Posted by midgar8784 View Post
You do not become depressed/homicidal/sociopathic in one day...no, you do not just snap. There are tons of signs, people either see them and get help, or some ignore them. Mental illness is one of the most ignored things in the world, there are still insurance plans that do not even cover it.
you do not notice the slow decline into depression many times until it is too late to pull them out. trust me Middy, I know what I am talking about on this part. No clue until it is to entrenched in the person and it is a bitch to pull them out of.

Sure I could look back and see many tells but when you live it you often miss it right in front of you. their depression makes you too busy with other things that suddenly become your responsibility, like kids and everything else, to notice the change in the person until it is often too late.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:03 PM   #774
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Originally Posted by midgar8784 View Post
Yes...suicidal people can and in fact have done mass shooting. With depression there are at times an inward feeling to hurt yourself,,,commit suicide, but there is also a point where you can go outward to hurt the ones that you feel have made you feel this way. Dillon klebold. Columbine...depression and anger, thats all it takes. Depression is not just about yourself...I have studied things like this for years. If you go through the similarities of all spree killers....anger...depression, powerless, outcast, quiet, in the mall in omaha, the killer decided to kill himself, and his last thought was to take out as many people as he could before he did it, because people to him were the reason for his pain...Spree shooters do not go after a certain person, its not about revenge, its about regaining power that they feel they have lost. In columbine, it was random, they did not target anyone, because its not about that. This kid did not even see the kids he was killing as you and I would see them, he saw them as a reason for his pain. All of these people that do this have depression, and this is the last point they get to.
No, Mid they suffered from psychopathic or sociopathic behavior not depression. Again I've dealt with a lot of young adults with extreme mental illnesses. Depression is not the cause of spree killings trust me. I'm speaking from a trained child psychologists point of view here. I know and understand exactly what I'm saying.

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Old 12-19-2012, 02:03 PM   #775
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Originally Posted by midgar8784 View Post
You do not become depressed/homicidal/sociopathic in one day...no, you do not just snap. There are tons of signs, people either see them and get help, or some ignore them. Mental illness is one of the most ignored things in the world, there are still insurance plans that do not even cover it.
Heres one.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:05 PM   #776
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you do not notice the slow decline into depression many times until it is too late to pull them out. trust me Middy, I know what I am talking about on this part. No clue until it is to entrenched in the person and it is a bitch to pull them out of.

Sure I could look back and see many tells but when you live it you often miss it right in front of you. their depression makes you too busy with other things that suddenly become your responsibility, like kids and everything else, to notice the change in the person until it is often too late.
Thats what I said....thats why I am saying more has to be done to show people the warning signs. But as I said, its often ignored, its often set aside as not a real issue. Thats the problem, from everything I have read, they knew of his issues, they knew they had to do something, but thats where it stopped, and at some point she began to not talk about it anymore...this is common and that is where the problem exists.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:06 PM   #777
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Heres one.
No thats called a difference of opinion....I have not said, you are wrong, I have been told that twice. I can show documentation that you do not just one day snap with no other issues before that. So that is offering my opinion, so without say I am wrong about that, show me how I am wrong about that.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:07 PM   #778
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Some kid was on TV yesterday. He had been in a tech club with the shooter and they knew eachother fairly well (played video games together and so on).

This kid said (and I'm paraphrasing): "We all felt that something was wrong, but we didn't feel it was our place to ask any questions"

I think what Mid is saying is that we, as a society, might need to get to a place where we're comfortable asking the question when we see something amiss.

Also, as the relative of someone suffering from chronic depression, I can easily attest to the fact that it can be a bitch and a half to find mental health help. Even if you're covered for therapy under your insurance, it is super tough to find a psychiatrist or psychologist that accepts new patients and is relatively close.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:08 PM   #779
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Originally Posted by midgar8784 View Post
Its easy to blame the shooter...and ignore everything else, but that really does not help the problem in the future, thats what people did for so long and its why this happens more and more. As I said, there are still insurance programs that do not even cover mental health. I am not saying its easy to see, or even that its easy to get treatment, but that is where things are being missed.
MIddy I know all this,

but until the truth comes out and they confirm a mental illness existed (shouldn't be hard) and people stop focusing on teh gun and on the person holding it, nothing will be done.

we need to stop blaming the tool and blaming the person using it. we need to start taking care of mental illness in this country instead of ignoring it like we do. it is too easy to point and say, he/she should just get up and do something but the reality is they want to but it hurts too much, it is numbing and a constant pain many feel that just over takes them.
I see a broken leg and I understand why he is sitting in bed but you can not see mental illness so you wonder why the lazy FVCK will not just get up and shower. yeah something that simple, shower.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:09 PM   #780
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I think it's been ackowleged in this thread for 40 plus pages this issue is far more than just guns, and that mental health is a big issue.
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