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Old 11-14-2017, 12:40 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by OJ's Glove View Post
Next thing you'll tell me is that media-voted awards aren't 100% foolproof.
Let's not be hasty...

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Old 11-14-2017, 12:45 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Dwight Schrute View Post
Bradshaw’s under rated in EVERYONES all time list.

It was pre-testing, no salary cap, incredible roster that solidified things for him.

But he sure didn’t have 9-12 one-and-dones as a 1 or 2 seed.

He drove the bus admirably.
Oh settle down, I'm not trying to argue Manning is better. Or that Bradshaw sucks (He might make my top 5 if I gave enough shits to make one).

What I find irritating is attempting to distill down a complex argument to "teh ringzzzz". It feels lazy, especially when there are better arguments to be made.

The championships should be part of a larger argument (that isn't hard to make), not the entire argument itself.

DO BETTER!

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Old 11-14-2017, 12:53 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Jaric View Post

What I find irritating is attempting to distill down a complex argument to "teh ringzzzz". It feels lazy, especially when there are better arguments to be made.
Brady has everything to argue in his favor, but I thing "teh ringzzz" keeps coming up because - let's face it - it's what everyone is playing for; but secondly it was the only real argument Montana backers had until recently.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:09 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by OJ's Glove View Post
Brady has everything to argue in his favor, but I thing "teh ringzzz" keeps coming up because - let's face it - it's what everyone is playing for; but secondly it was the only real argument Montana backers had until recently.
Honestly, I just like Montana better lol.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:25 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Oh settle down, I'm not trying to argue Manning is better. Or that Bradshaw sucks (He might make my top 5 if I gave enough shits to make one).

What I find irritating is attempting to distill down a complex argument to "teh ringzzzz". It feels lazy, especially when there are better arguments to be made.

The championships should be part of a larger argument (that isn't hard to make), not the entire argument itself.

DO BETTER!

Pick a stat that suits you then.

Wins? Right there.

Playoff wins? Nobodies close.

Championships? Please.

Longevity? Cmon man.

It’s a MUCH harder task proving he isn’t the 🐐 than if he is.


And as far as Bradshaw the comparison to 5 head was just because you have a championship caliber roster doesn’t mean you get it done. He did.

---------- Post added at 01:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------

Quote:
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Honestly, I just like Montana better lol.
What would Brady’s numbers look like if he had the best WR of all time?
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:29 PM   #36
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He did for 2 years.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:30 PM   #37
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What I think makes Tom the greatest is the obvious talent he is with all the stats and records and stuff but more so is the fact that the teams he wins with are some much different than the previous team, the roster turnover is amazing yet the one constant is Tom, the Head Coach, and the owner.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:33 PM   #38
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evry click is money in his pocket, F that douchenozzle

he is an attention starved little bitch

Well, this is his twitter timeline so it pays him zero when the link is clicked.
It is good for about 100 laughs though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oswlek View Post
Tom Brady has a higher indoor passer rating than Manning, and does even when you restrict the latter to his Indy years.

This means that, despite Manning having significantly advantages in both weaponry investment and home/road splits (Brady actually has zero home games in this sample), Tom still grades out as the more efficient passer.

That really is game, set, match.

Just for shits and giggles, though, here are the averages for Manning's 7 first team all-pro seasons.

376/555 - 67.8% comp - 4,458 yards - 8.0 ypa - 37 TDs - 11 INTs

Here are Brady's averages from a cherry picked selection of 6 NON-first time all-pro seasons*:

383/593 - 64.6% comp - 4,629 yards - 7.8 ypa - 34 TDs - 9 INTs

Huge disparity there.

* I bumped up last year's totals to what their full season numbers would have been given 16 games. Considering that Brady has played a virtually the same rate this year, I thought it was fair.
Great work, Oswlek. Reps.
TB stacks up rather well to Manning's All-Pro seasons.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:47 PM   #39
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Orr was far and away the best defenseman to ever suit up. He did change the way the game was played from a defense and perspective.

But Gretzky was the most phenomenal player ever.

The numbers are beyond insane.
Actually, Doug Harvey was the first innovator at the defensemen position. He was Orr before Orr was.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:53 PM   #40
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Actually, Doug Harvey was the first innovator at the defensemen position. He was Orr before Orr was.
1113 games. 88 goals.

With the Canadiens roster rule assisted wagon teams.

HoF for sure.

But not a game changer to Orr’s degree.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:02 PM   #41
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1113 games. 88 goals.

With the Canadiens roster rule assisted wagon teams.

HoF for sure.

But not a game changer to Orr’s degree.
Yes, Harvey did have the weapons alongside him AND he revolutionized the way defensemen played defense before Orr stepped foot on the ice.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:22 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Dwight Schrute View Post

What would Brady’s numbers look like if he had the best WR of all time?
Montana had a clear advantage having Rice far longer than Brady had Moss.

To be fair to Joe, though, he won his first Super Bowl before Rice. The best receiver on that '81 team was probably Freddie Solomon. JAG.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:27 PM   #43
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"Montana had a clear advantage having 'Sticky Rice' far longer than Brady had Moss."


Fixed for accuracy.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:28 PM   #44
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"Montana had a clear advantage having 'Sticky Rice' far longer than Brady had Moss."


Fixed for accuracy.
True, but Moss' giant gray-alien hands and fingers were probably better than stickum. lol
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:40 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Oh settle down, I'm not trying to argue Manning is better. Or that Bradshaw sucks (He might make my top 5 if I gave enough shits to make one).

What I find irritating is attempting to distill down a complex argument to "teh ringzzzz". It feels lazy, especially when there are better arguments to be made.

The championships should be part of a larger argument (that isn't hard to make), not the entire argument itself.

DO BETTER!

Indeed it's not hard to do better, I looked over it during the offseason and had my results in this thread here:

http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/sho...t=project+goat

The part relevant to Brady:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant Octopodes View Post
GOAT - Tom Brady
Most wins all time, 3rd all time in Passer Rating, 4th in TDs and yards, most Super Bowl wins, tied for most NFL championships (5) with Bart Starr, longest span between Super Bowl wins, most division titles, most (everything) in the post season, 4x Super Bowl MVP (most ever), 12x Pro Bowl, 4x All Pro, 2x NFL MVP, 2x Offensive Player of the Year, the list goes on. I don't really need to spend a lot of time justifying Tom Brady as the GOAT on a Patriots forum. But I will

In addition to being 1st in just about every area that includes wins, it is worth noting that there is absolutely no one who has both a superior passer rating and superior volume stats compared to him. In fact, there is no one who is even top 5 in both categories other than him (Peyton Manning is 6th in Career Passer Rating, due in no small part to his terrible final season). Also of note is that since 2007, with the changes in the ball handling rules, his passer rating is on average over 103, second only to Aaron Rodgers with his 104.2 and not far behind him.

Sure he wins at a remarkable rate, but you can throw out the victories entirely and still make a valid argument for him as the GOAT. In the task of quarterbacking, no one else has ever maintained his level of greatness for the length of time he has, which is reflected in those stats. He has Aaron Rodgers-esque efficiency, Peyton Manning-esque stats, and tops it all off with a laundry list of wins and accomplishments never before seen in the NFL and likely to never be seen again. Also of note, he's still going. If he manages to play for 3 more years it's not just possible but somewhat likely he'll claim most volume stats from Manning and sit at worst 2nd behind Brees, and it's certainly not a given he will remain behind Russel Wilson in passer rating. He is the complete package.
Add to that the likelihood he will end up being the most successful QB at 40+, and imho it's hard to make a compelling argument for anyone else (except maybe Otto Graham, but at this point people are like "who?"). Joe Montana was great, legitimately. But Brady has had a career in terms of games started nearing 1.5x as long as Montana's, has been to nearly 2x as many SBs, has won nearly twice as many games, and has been more efficient and a better passer the whole time through. He also didn't trail off and get replaced by the hot new stud, he earned his keep even as an aging QB and while Montana's last years in KC were comparatively forgettable (below career average in every meaningful way), Brady at 40 is still way above his career averages and continues to redefine greatness.

Hopefully that's an argument more to your satisfaction.
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