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Old 10-09-2019, 07:14 PM   #436
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It seems to me this exact conversation (leaving the Kurds to die) was had concerning leaving Iraq about 10 years ago. I am glad I am not a Kurd. It is not meant to be funny, but it is like they are Charlie Brown and the US is Lucy.
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Old 10-09-2019, 08:47 PM   #437
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Originally Posted by PatsFan09 View Post
Not sure how I should feel about Trump pulling troops out of Syria. On the one hand I tend to be more of an isolationist when it comes to the military, yet on the other hand we serve up the Kurds on a silver platter to be slaughtered by the Turks.

Abandoning an ally like that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.


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I feel exactly the same way.

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Old 10-10-2019, 06:46 AM   #438
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
Sanctions?

They work every time, I guess. I'm sure that will help the Kurds so much while they are getting blown to bits.
My post was sarcastic. At least the swift and mercyless part.
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:57 AM   #439
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We go in. Secure these countries. Liberate them. Protect them.

But at what point are they expected to be able to stand on their own? I feel they just adopt the “big brother USA is here and they’ll protect us” and don’t really even try to develop any self suffiency. They’re on global welfare.

We’re spending trillions in totality. We should be getting offset costs of oil to match our military expenses. In no way should it cost the US taxpayer to be a bodyguard.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:01 AM   #440
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We go in. Secure these countries. Liberate them. Protect them.

But at what point are they expected to be able to stand on their own? I feel they just adopt the “big brother USA is here and they’ll protect us” and don’t really even try to develop any self suffiency. They’re on global welfare.

We’re spending trillions in totality. We should be getting offset costs of oil to match our military expenses. In no way should it cost the US taxpayer to be a bodyguard.
Agreed. However, I don't even think we should be a bodyguard unless it's strategic to US defense.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:38 AM   #441
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Originally Posted by PatsFan09 View Post
Not sure how I should feel about Trump pulling troops out of Syria. On the one hand I tend to be more of an isolationist when it comes to the military, yet on the other hand we serve up the Kurds on a silver platter to be slaughtered by the Turks.

Abandoning an ally like that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.


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Excellent analogy.

But...don't forget...Turkey is an actual ally, on paper, by Treaty.

Theoretically, of course.

Rest assured, though...the Kurds were doomed from the moment the US decided to move on Syria. What is happening now was inevitable. The only way to prevent it would be to overthrow Turkey.

Turkey, Syria, and Iraq all want the Kurds annihilated. The Kurds want to annex parts of those other countries to make their own, and the Kurds are not above blowing up civilians and all the other terrorism tactics in those countries.

The US has now been arming and training them for years in Syria. From the perspective of Turkey, Syria, and Iraq...the US has been arming and training a hostile terrorist army for 5 years, and they are a greater threat than they ever have been now.

What is about to happen to the Kurds, is entirely our doing. They were put in a no win situation when we decided to go into Syria. We signed their death certificate the moment we decided we needed to destabilize Syria to stop the Russian oil pipeline.

Kurds are terrorists. They are also freedom fighters, fighting for liberty and self rule. It all just depends on your perspective. If you're the one they are killing and murdering...they are terrorists. If they are useful fodder for your foreign interventionist wars, they are freedom fighters.

Either way, they are most definitely Charlie Brown kicking the football....again.

And this isn't the first time we fucked them. We helped our buddy Saddam Hussein gas them 30 years ago.

When Saddam Hussein gassed 5,000 Kurds at Halabja


https://www.nation.co.ke/news/world/...4fq/index.html

Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran

The U.S. knew Hussein was launching some of the worst chemical attacks in history -- and still gave him a hand.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/26...e-gassed-iran/

We are living the interventionist militaristic foreign policy life. This is what makes us proud to be American!

As for the Kurds...


They'll just have to pay the price so we can keep being proud to be an American foreign war empire. Everyone does...it's just the Kurds' turn today, that's all.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:48 AM   #442
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I don't think it's just a matter of perspective. The despotic countries that want to wipe them out have no validity and no righteous moral stance. They have no right to exist.

Not saying it should be the US to take them out. But if it's in our strategic interest we, as a mostly free nation that at least pays lip service to individual rights has every right to goin and wipe them out but no obligation to do so.
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:53 AM   #443
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Agreed. However, I don't even think we should be a bodyguard unless it's strategic to US defense.
Yup.
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:06 AM   #444
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I don't think it's just a matter of perspective. The despotic countries that want to wipe them out have no validity and no righteous moral stance. They have no right to exist.
All the countries you are referring to are democracies, I believe, and less despotic than we are, judging by incarceration rates.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:16 AM   #445
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All the countries you are referring to are democracies, I believe, and less despotic than we are, judging by incarceration rates.
I think you that know democracy is a losing proposition and I don't think incarceration rates, as bad as they are, determine a legit government or not.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:00 AM   #446
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I think you that know democracy is a losing proposition and I don't think incarceration rates, as bad as they are, determine a legit government or not.
I'd say it's a strong indicator.

Aside from domestic propaganda, what, precisely, qualifies these countries as "Despotic" but excludes the United States? I'm curious what the standards are.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:00 AM   #447
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The problem I see with the US as the world police is that we do not wipe them out. We go in put them in an awkward position. Make them say uncle give them a noogie, then leave to return 10-15 years later to do the same thing. In the interim we cripple them with sanctions which only hurt the innocent population.
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Old 10-10-2019, 12:07 PM   #448
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Originally Posted by foobahl View Post
The problem I see with the US as the world police is that we do not wipe them out. We go in put them in an awkward position. Make them say uncle give them a noogie, then leave to return 10-15 years later to do the same thing. In the interim we cripple them with sanctions which only hurt the innocent population.
I agree. If you aren't willing to bring the entirety of your might and influence to bear against your enemy and force them into complete capitulation, then don't bother...and to be honest we probably shouldn't in this age of nuclear weapons, chemical and biological weapons, technology integrated into every aspect of life along with many enemies that lack a city state or nation to retaliate against.
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Old 10-10-2019, 01:14 PM   #449
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The problem I see with the US as the world police is that we do not wipe them out. We go in put them in an awkward position. Make them say uncle give them a noogie, then leave to return 10-15 years later to do the same thing. In the interim we cripple them with sanctions which only hurt the innocent population.
Off the top of my head, seems to me that it's generally the people we arm, equip, and train as allies that we have to go back and fight 10-15 years later.

People like the Taliban/Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein, Manuel Noriega, and so on.

Besides, as long as we support Saudi Arabia, we support the biggest funder of terrorism on the planet. That's the price of tying the US Dollar to them. It's not a coincidence that the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi...they weren't fucking Afghans or Syrians...they were Saudi.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 10-10-2019, 02:24 PM   #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Schrute View Post
We go in. Secure these countries. Liberate them. Protect them.

But at what point are they expected to be able to stand on their own? I feel they just adopt the “big brother USA is here and they’ll protect us” and don’t really even try to develop any self suffiency. They’re on global welfare.

We’re spending trillions in totality. We should be getting offset costs of oil to match our military expenses. In no way should it cost the US taxpayer to be a bodyguard.


Yeah, that’s not what happened with the Kurds.


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