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Old 09-20-2018, 11:49 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patfan64 View Post
People hear the words higher power and immediately go to religion. While there are some religious aspects of AA/NA, you choose your higher power. Some choose nature, some choose inanimate objects, some choose a particular group of AA's that they see on a regular basis.

And no one is forced to do this. But it's obvious that their lives sucked before coming to AA/NA. The success rate of those who have turned their will and their life over to a higher power is bigger than you think.

People tout the "failure rate" of AA/NA. Sadly, that includes all those who were unwilling to recognize that they needed a higher power in their lives.

I've sponsored guys who were willing and some who weren't. Those that weren't are no longer in AA. Those that were are still active participants.

I'm not saying all who turn their will and life over are 100% cured. Just need to educate people on the religious aspect of what AA/NA are all about.
How many of the "failed" attempts are court ordered, not someone walking in looking for help? Yet that is part of the statistics on failure rate.

I know this from my days as a driver that was often the case. Funny thing is I learned a lot I still use today and the person I drove is still searching.
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:06 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patfan64 View Post
People hear the words higher power and immediately go to religion. While there are some religious aspects of AA/NA, you choose your higher power. Some choose nature, some choose inanimate objects, some choose a particular group of AA's that they see on a regular basis.

And no one is forced to do this. But it's obvious that their lives sucked before coming to AA/NA. The success rate of those who have turned their will and their life over to a higher power is bigger than you think.

People tout the "failure rate" of AA/NA. Sadly, that includes all those who were unwilling to recognize that they needed a higher power in their lives.

I've sponsored guys who were willing and some who weren't. Those that weren't are no longer in AA. Those that were are still active participants.

I'm not saying all who turn their will and life over are 100% cured. Just need to educate people on the religious aspect of what AA/NA are all about.
Thank you for this. I've been struggling with mental health and addiction issues my whole life. Been to hundreds of meetings of AA and NA as well as various secular type programs to no avail.

You are right step programs do have a religious aspect such as the use of the Lords Prayer and Serenity Prayer plus it organized like a religion with rituals, meetings, collections etc. But that's not been my issue,. It's always been the higher power issue.

Being an atheist and someone that philosophically thinks the opposite of many tenets I just have a very hard time with it. But you have given me a few things to think about. So thank you.
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:32 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patfan64 View Post
People hear the words higher power and immediately go to religion. While there are some religious aspects of AA/NA, you choose your higher power. Some choose nature, some choose inanimate objects, some choose a particular group of AA's that they see on a regular basis.

And no one is forced to do this. But it's obvious that their lives sucked before coming to AA/NA. The success rate of those who have turned their will and their life over to a higher power is bigger than you think.

People tout the "failure rate" of AA/NA. Sadly, that includes all those who were unwilling to recognize that they needed a higher power in their lives.

I've sponsored guys who were willing and some who weren't. Those that weren't are no longer in AA. Those that were are still active participants.

I'm not saying all who turn their will and life over are 100% cured. Just need to educate people on the religious aspect of what AA/NA are all about.
You're wasting your breath. He has no clue what he's talking about.
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Old Yesterday, 06:10 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriotInIndy View Post
That's the dumbest part about AA. It shouldn't be about forcing people to turn over to a higher power. It should be about teaching people that they have the power to make themselves better.

---------- Post added at 11:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 AM ----------



Ah, ok. Didn't know Slater was really religious.
If you read my post I said a higher power, something you can turn to and said it could be the ocean, or God. My intent was to say many turn to god, they typically already have a religion background, but a lot turn to something else and I used the Ocean as an example to show something more powerful than an individual. I think it is not what it is you turn your life over to, but the fact you are asking for help, humbling oneself, that is the point.

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I saw a pretty good game last night, Jete lost, but that No. 11 on the Stains drops a lot of footballs that should have been caught. He needs to hold on to those footballs if he is truly the Josh Gordon replacement they kept claiming him to be.
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Has Joe Buck come out against Crowell for wiping his ass with the football? I mean he ripped moss for mooning and rubbing his cheeks on the goal post

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Old Yesterday, 09:13 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikiemo83 View Post
If you read my post I said a higher power, something you can turn to and said it could be the ocean, or God. My intent was to say many turn to god, they typically already have a religion background, but a lot turn to something else and I used the Ocean as an example to show something more powerful than an individual. I think it is not what it is you turn your life over to, but the fact you are asking for help, humbling oneself, that is the point.

-------------------------------------------

I saw a pretty good game last night, Jete lost, but that No. 11 on the Stains drops a lot of footballs that should have been caught. He needs to hold on to those footballs if he is truly the Josh Gordon replacement they kept claiming him to be.
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Has Joe Buck come out against Crowell for wiping his ass with the football? I mean he ripped moss for mooning and rubbing his cheeks on the goal post

Right, but AA has a particular higher power they'd like you to choose. That's why they have a history of using the lord's prayer at meetings.

I believe people have the power in them to make the changes necessary. I don't think you have to turn yourself over to god, the ocean, a stampede of wild horses, etc. Believe in yourself, find a healthy hobby as an alternative to your addiction, find friends who truly support you.
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Old Yesterday, 10:05 AM   #156
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There's a bit more to it than that.

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Old Yesterday, 10:24 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by johnlocke View Post
There's a bit more to it than that.

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Of course there is.
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Old Yesterday, 01:54 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patfan64 View Post
People tout the "failure rate" of AA/NA. Sadly, that includes all those who were unwilling to recognize that they needed a higher power in their lives.
I object to this phrasing. The failure rate (or success rate) is what it is, which is pretty much equivalent to every other method of treatment, including cold turkey. Sure, some people aren't ready for treatment or they object to certain aspects of AA, but these same issues are present in every other method as well. Dismissing large portions of the "failure" group like this is not a proper way of viewing things.

In truth, we really don't have a sound grasp on addiction recovery. There are lots of options that are equally unlikely to work, while also being equally likely to be the one that finally gets through. It isn't a problem that AA utilizes a higher power; to the contrary, that seems to be a step many recovering addicts needed to take. The problem is painting it as being more effective than it really is.
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Old Yesterday, 02:08 PM   #159
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Early tests with magic mushrooms indicate a signicantly higher success rate of breaking addiction (among other things)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/a...ting-addiction
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Old Yesterday, 03:41 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Early tests with magic mushrooms indicate a signicantly higher success rate of breaking addiction (among other things)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/a...ting-addiction
I have read that. The FDA also cleared Drs for the the use of ecstasy in treating things like PTSD.

Problem for me is mushroom make me sick these days. I dunno maybe cuz I used to take massive quantities at a time and my body now rejects em but I can totally see there benefit in this. For weeks after I had no interest in drinking or any other drugs except weed i suppose.

On a related note. My good friend Jamie is my age, 46 and still likes to take acid, he's a successful businessman but a wicked Deadhead. He's a severe diabetic and his blood sugar is completely unstable no matter what he does. But for 3 weeks after he doses his blood sugar and A1C are perfect and stable.

Long live psychedelics I suppose. 😁

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Old Yesterday, 03:59 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlocke View Post
I have read that. The FDA also cleared Drs for the the use of ecstasy in treating things like PTSD.

Problem for me is mushroom make me sick these days. I dunno maybe cuz I used to take massive quantities at a time and my body now rejects em but I can totally see there benefit in this. For weeks after I had no interest in drinking or any other drugs except weed i suppose.

On a related note. My good friend Jamie is my age, 46 and still likes to take acid, he's a successful businessman but a wicked Deadhead. He's a severe diabetic and his blood sugar is completely unstable no matter what he does. But for 3 weeks after he doses his blood sugar and A1C are perfect and stable.

Long live psychedelics I suppose. ��

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Its been a couple years since I've ate any, and if I did again it would almost certainly be a microdose (1g or so). As it's been explained to me, the mushrooms act to remove the pathways carved by addiction in your mind so you more or less start with a fresh desktop (that sounds worse than it actually is)

Edit: I've also heard about MDMA being used under the direction of a therapist to treat PTSD with excellent results as well. Same thing with ketamine and depression. More research is needed of course, but the initial results are encouraging.
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Old Yesterday, 04:07 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Its been a couple years since I've ate any, and if I did again it would almost certainly be a microdose (1g or so). As it's been explained to me, the mushrooms act to remove the pathways carved by addiction in your mind so you more or less start with a fresh desktop (that sounds worse than it actually is)

Edit: I've also heard about MDMA being used under the direction of a therapist to treat PTSD with excellent results as well. Same thing with ketamine and depression. More research is needed of course, but the initial results are encouraging.
Yes. Very encouraging.

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Old Yesterday, 07:26 PM   #163
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