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Old 02-14-2006, 02:30 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally posted by Benign Despot
Actually I'm playing around with sylogistic proofs. I took a class in college on Philosophical Thought and Religious belief where we spent a lot of time kicking aroung the "logical proofs" of the existance of god(s).
IMO, that's where faith comes in. The belief in something intangible, that you can't see/hear/touch/taste/smell/etc. That's why science will never be able to prove God exists. It wasn't meant to be that way. By faith, and faith alone, shall you believe.

After all, if it could be proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, there would be no need for faith.
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Old 02-14-2006, 02:39 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally posted by cka203
IMO, that's where faith comes in. The belief in something intangible, that you can't see/hear/touch/taste/smell/etc. That's why science will never be able to prove God exists. It wasn't meant to be that way. By faith, and faith alone, shall you believe.

After all, if it could be proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, there would be no need for faith.
Why would that be a bad thing
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Old 02-14-2006, 02:44 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally posted by bideau
yeah I am multi tasking too much today, had a phone to one ear, drafting the changes to another plan while trying to post. I need to look at what I type a little more

what I meant is we all believe in basically the same god with our own twist and if christ in middle eastern, as Alky I think stated, and people are drafting his image, that the musslins would get mad at the images of Prophet Muhamma being in a paper because you are not to idolize him that way.

or something like that


I just labeled a drainage system some funky stuff also.... I need to be a little more attentive at times
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Old 02-14-2006, 02:46 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally posted by bideau
Why would that be a bad thing
Well, this is probably waaaay over my head, but in my limited knowledge and understanding, I think it's not so much that it would be a bad thing, rather, I think it would just defeat the purpose.

I mean, I was taught that God wants us to come to Him of our own free will. Now, if His existence could be proven as a scientific fact, there would be no reason for us to believe or to choose to believe... we would just accept it as fact.

As I said, I'm certainly no religious scholar, but that's my layperson's understanding.
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Old 02-14-2006, 02:47 PM   #140
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Alas I believe I was born without a faith gene. That coupled with a deep seeded distrust of religion (as distinct from faith or belief) probably means I'm hopeless.

To date I've come to the conclusion that, for me, the nature of creation is "unknowable" so I just enjoy the ride as best I can with a healthy sense of curiosity about where it leads to.
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Old 02-14-2006, 02:49 PM   #141
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I've been checking this thread out all day and can't really come up with anything worth saying, because it's hard for me to understand my own beliefs, nevermind sharing them in any kind of meaningful manner so I'll take a raincheck.

Having said that, I think this is a great thread with some really moving and intriguing comments and think most everyone has done a good job of listening to and discussing other's thoughts and views about what is a very challenging, potentially troublesome topic.

Good job. Carry on.

One thing I wish is that Oedipus Tex was still around for this one. I can just imagine some of the comments he would have had.
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Old 02-14-2006, 02:51 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally posted by Benign Despot
Alas I believe I was born without a faith gene. That coupled with a deep seeded distrust of religion (as distinct from faith or belief) probably means I'm hopeless.
you have faith in BB, to each there own, we all see our god differently, yours knows how to run a tight ship and win
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Old 02-14-2006, 03:01 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawg73
I've been checking this thread out all day and can't really come up with anything worth saying, because it's hard for me to understand my own beliefs, nevermind sharing them in any kind of meaningful manner so I'll take a raincheck.

Having said that, I think this is a great thread with some really moving and intriguing comments and think most everyone has done a good job of listening to and discussing other's thoughts and views about what is a very challenging, potentially troublesome topic.

Good job. Carry on.

One thing I wish is that Oedipus Tex was still around for this one. I can just imagine some of the comments he would have had.
I agree, Hawg, the Planeteers have done a very good job of discussing a sensitive issue intelligently and respectfully.

I have enjoyed it greatly, since football season is over and there's been little else to talk about (IMO).

I'm sad, however, that you feel you have nothing to add, as I always enjoy reading your posts.

Everyone should feel free to jump in and say whatever they think.

Again, good job everyone! Speaks well of the membership here!
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Old 02-14-2006, 03:03 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally posted by Benign Despot
Alas I believe I was born without a faith gene. That coupled with a deep seeded distrust of religion (as distinct from faith or belief) probably means I'm hopeless.

To date I've come to the conclusion that, for me, the nature of creation is "unknowable" so I just enjoy the ride as best I can with a healthy sense of curiosity about where it leads to.
No one is hopeless.



Although I do think it's harder for some people, especially those who tend to be literal thinkers.
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Old 02-14-2006, 03:45 PM   #145
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Wow, great thread.

I've really enjoyed everyone's contributions. As a Mormon or Latter Day Saint, I saw the thread's title and my defenses went up.

It's really nice to hear the opinions of intelligent adults discussing religion. (I can't believe I just wrote that on an internet forum, but then again, this isn't your typical forum).
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Old 02-14-2006, 03:56 PM   #146
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Here are some random thoughts I have about this thread and Religion......

1) Jheavner......your cute little bum-bum, be it a Mormon one or not, belongs to the Planet....we tell you when you can leave it, not the other way round. capisci?

2) can you imagine a Religion thread on IndyStar? OMFG!

3) I was raised in a Baptist church from zygote to the age of 13. Church school every Sunday before The Service, you know, a whole morning event. The Church school was taught by the Deacons as well as other motivated, caring members of the congregation. I can remember many lessons of forgiveness, understanding and compassion for your fellow man, not just your church brethren being taught.

Then one day our church's minister announced that he wanted to leave the ministry....his sermon was one of asking permission and forgiveness from the congregation to do so.

Did he want to leave because he was doing "special counselling" with one or more of the member's wives or daughters? Was he closet alkie? Did he want to join The Fab Five on Queer Eye?

No, No, No.

He lost the calling, realized it and knew that his heart would not be able to serve the church and its membership. that's all.

I remember being disappointed by his decision but inspired by his honesty and sincerity. Unfortunately, the congregation's response in the following few weeks astounded me. Complete disdain for the man, no forgiveness, understanding and compassion was shown to him by the very people having the balls to have been preaching the same to me all those years.

I left the church shortly after, much to the disappointment of my mother but she couldn't argue with my thinking about how our church didn't practice what they professed to preach.
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Old 02-14-2006, 04:06 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally posted by cka203
I'm sad, however, that you feel you have nothing to add, as I always enjoy reading your posts.

Everyone should feel free to jump in and say whatever they think.

I actually tried 2 or 3 times and deleted them all before hitting the send button.

Too much crap about me as a fallen Catholic and the history of mankind from hunter/gatherers to intellectual/builders, combined with UFOlogy. I just couldn't stand to read it and neither would anyone else.

I think I'll stick with my new church, the Church of the Presumptuous Assumption.

Thanks, but I'm on the bench for this one. ;)
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Old 02-14-2006, 04:09 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally posted by RoadGrader
Here are some random thoughts I have about this thread and Religion......

1) Jheavner......your cute little bum-bum, be it a Mormon one or not, belongs to the Planet....we tell you when you can leave it, not the other way round. capisci?

2) can you imagine a Religion thread on IndyStar? OMFG!

3) I was raised in a Baptist church from zygote to the age of 13. Church school every Sunday before The Service, you know, a whole morning event. The Church school was taught by the Deacons as well as other motivated, caring members of the congregation. I can remember many lessons of forgiveness, understanding and compassion for your fellow man, not just your church brethren being taught.

Then one day our church's minister announced that he wanted to leave the ministry....his sermon was one of asking permission and forgiveness from the congregation to do so.

Did he want to leave because he was doing "special counselling" with one or more of the member's wives or daughters? Was he closet alkie? Did he want to join The Fab Five on Queer Eye?

No, No, No.

He lost the calling, realized it and knew that his heart would not be able to serve the church and its membership. that's all.

I remember being disappointed by his decision but inspired by his honesty and sincerity. Unfortunately, the congregation's response in the following few weeks astounded me. Complete disdain for the man, no forgiveness, understanding and compassion was shown to him by the very people having the balls to have been preaching the same to me all those years.

I left the church shortly after, much to the disappointment of my mother but she couldn't argue with my thinking about how our church didn't practice what they professed to preach.
RG - That church, IMO, is/was not filled with true believers, if that was their reaction. Rather, it sounds like the story posted earlier, where the guy wore ragged jeans, etc.

And that is a shame, when people become disallusioned (sp?), as you were/are, and it causes them to think that ALL religion is bad. Honestly, not all churches are like that, and I hope someday (if you choose to do so) (and if you haven't already), you find one filled with true believers, who would recognize and appreciate that what this man did was right.

I'm sorry this happened to you.

They will be punished, for sure. I remember a verse about woe to those who causes the least of one of my children to go astray... (or something to that effect).

I think that applies here.

As for your comment about a thread like this on IndyStar.....



No way it would be NEAR as intelligent, thoughtful, respectful, etc., as this one! I shudder to think!
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Old 02-14-2006, 04:12 PM   #149
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Hey man, leave my bum-bum outta this.

And I don't wanna leave, I guess I will have to mind my P & Q's.

This thread is like a breath of fresh air.
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Old 02-14-2006, 04:17 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawg73
I actually tried 2 or 3 times and deleted them all before hitting the send button.

Too much crap about me as a fallen Catholic and the history of mankind from hunter/gatherers to intellectual/builders, combined with UFOlogy. I just couldn't stand to read it and neither would anyone else.

I think I'll stick with my new church, the Church of the Presumptuous Assumption.

Thanks, but I'm on the bench for this one. ;)
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