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Old 01-29-2019, 02:34 PM   #61
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Who's the other? And I'd be fine if the Libertarian party didn't exist. They are an intellectual abomination.
Einstein.
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:41 PM   #62
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From Reason Magazine

Quote:
Are Billionaires Immoral? Democrats Are Staking Out Aggressive Anti-Wealth Platforms Ahead of 2020.
Is it moral to blame a country’s problems on a handful of wealthy individuals? Is it a wise political strategy?
Ira Stoll | January 28, 2019

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Coming soon to a Democratic Party presidential debate: the question, "Is it morally appropriate for anyone to be a billionaire?"

A version of the query was raised earlier this month by the author Ta-Nehisi Coates. He was interviewing a new Democratic congresswoman from New York, the self-described socialist Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez, about, among other things, her plan to raise top marginal income tax rates as high as 70%.

Talking about the tax rate, which would nearly double the current top federal marginal rate of 37%, Ocasio-Cortez replied, "It's an economic question but it's also a moral question....It's saying, where do we draw the line in excess? Maybe this idea of idealizing this outcome, of maybe one day you too can be a billionaire and own more than millions of families combined, is not an aspirational or good thing."

Coates followed up: "I hate to personalize this, but do you think it is moral for individuals to, for instance—do we live in a moral world that allows for billionaires? Is that a moral outcome?"

The answer from the congresswoman was emphatic and came without any hesitation. "No, it's not. It's not. It's not. And I think it's important to say that."

She cautioned, "I don't think that necessarily means that all billionaires are immoral. It is not to say that someone like Bill Gates for example or Warren Buffett are immoral people, I do not believe that. But I do think a system that allows billionaires to exist, when there are parts of Alabama where people are still getting ringworm because they don't have access to public health, is wrong."

The factcheckers pounced to point out that the public health problem in Alabama is hookworm, not ringworm. But the larger point looms nonetheless.

It won't be the last time the issue comes up, at least if the congresswoman and her team have anything to say about it. Her policy aide, Dan Riffle, has a Twitter account named, "Every Billionaire Is a Policy Failure."

Riffle responded on Twitter to the Coates interview, which was at a Riverside Church event marking Martin Luther King Jr. Day: "My goal for this year is to get a moderator to ask 'Is it morally appropriate for anyone to be a billionaire?' at one of the Dem primary debates."

It'd be a particularly interesting question on which to hear from a variety of the other presidential candidates, both actual and potential.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), like Ocasio-Cortez a self-described socialist, got impressive traction but not the nomination in the 2016 primary in part by talking incessantly about "billionaires."

Senator Elizabeth Warren rejects the socialist label but, campaigning in Puerto Rico recently, complained, "the rich and powerful are taking so much for themselves and leaving so little for everyone else." She has proposed a 3 percent annual wealth tax on those with assets of $1 billion or more.

And then there is Michael Bloomberg, who could have retired comfortably at 40 on his $10 million Salomon Brothers severance, but chose instead to work hard and risk his own capital on a financial technology startup, crawling under desks on weekends on floors littered with old McDonald's hamburger wrappers and mouse droppings to run computer cables for clients.

Another billionaire, longtime Starbucks coffee CEO Howard Schultz, says he is considering a presidential run as an independent. Schultz grew up in public housing in Brooklyn and was the first in his immediate family to attend college.

Republicans, including President Trump, who has his own fortune, often have trouble finding the right language to defend wealth.

Maria Bartiromo of Fox News Channel and Fox Business Network offered a hint some directions Republicans are likely to go in when she, on Fox News, described the remarks by Ocasio-Cortez as "quite naïve." She pointed out that rich people already pay a large share of federal income taxes. She defended the billionaires in part by talking about their philanthropy, speaking of Kenneth Langone's support for New York University's medical school, Hank Greenberg's support of New York-Presbyterian Hospital, and Stephen Schwarzman's support for the New York Public Library. Such philanthropy sometimes strikes leftists as undemocratic; they'd rather this money be allocated by Washington politicians elected by the general public than by the people who earned it.

Bartiromo also warned that confiscatory tax rates could hurt productivity: "Are you gonna work really hard, if you know that at a point, you will have to give it all to the government? I don't think so." This is a point not only about economic productivity at the national level, but about cultivating the individual virtue of hard work—"industry," as Benjamin Franklin called it.

Bret Stephens made a pragmatic and utilitarian case in The New York Times over the weekend, in a column about Venezuela: "All of this used to be obvious enough, but in the age of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez it has to be explained all over again. Why does socialism never work? Because, as Margaret Thatcher explained, 'eventually you run out of other people's money.'"
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:55 PM   #63
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What I find immoral/undesirable is the amount of political influence that money gets them.
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Old 01-29-2019, 03:02 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
What I find immoral/undesirable is the amount of political influence that money gets them.
Agreed.

On top of that, the Bloombergs and Buffets of the world get lionized and adored by the left when they start talking about raising income taxes. "Oh, look how conscientious and wonderful and moral they are! "

Of course.

They don't fucking pay income taxes! They make money in capital gains! Income taxes are the money government takes from working folks, who do pay income taxes, so they can give it to the Bloombergs and Buffets of the world.

Sadly, it works every time.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 01-29-2019, 03:39 PM   #65
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What I find immoral/undesirable is the amount of political influence that money gets them.
Complete separation of state and economics solves the pull peddling cronyism problem.

And there are many businessmen that don't use government pull to get wealthy though that has become excessively difficult with the mass of regulations in this country.
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Old 01-29-2019, 03:57 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlocke View Post
Complete separation of state and economics solves the pull peddling cronyism problem.

And there are many businessmen that don't use government pull to get wealthy though that has become excessively difficult with the mass of regulations in this country.
Remember the Windows 2000 debacle?

At the time, Gates paid $0 in lobbying.

That's what happens if you make too much and don't give the politicians their cut. They come after you on behalf of your competition that DOES pay them.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 01-29-2019, 04:05 PM   #67
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Quote:
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Remember the Windows 2000 debacle?

At the time, Gates paid $0 in lobbying.

That's what happens if you make too much and don't give the politicians their cut. They come after you on behalf of your competition that DOES pay them.
+1 He was who I was thinking about when I wrote that.
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Old 01-29-2019, 04:48 PM   #68
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Quote:
The Senator Who Is Betraying the Senate
Instead of protecting Congress’s power, Lindsey Graham is urging Trump to undermine it in his pursuit of a wall.
Link

TLDR: Lindsey Graham is fucking up
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Old 01-29-2019, 05:05 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Link

TLDR: Lindsey Graham is fucking up
From the title, it seems to be a piece criticizing Lindsay Graham calling on Trump to use Emergency Powers to build the wall.

Well, I started reading the article until the second paragraph started with...

Quote:
A border wall would be a major budget item
...and then I remembered that the annual federal budget is close to 4 trillion dollars and my mind drifted to number crunching and the 1/7th or so of 1 percent that his requested 5.7 billion amounted to related to just one year's budget, or the total cost of the wall (depending on whose figures you use) being between 1 and 2 percent of a single year's budget and then I pondered what the definition of the word "major" meant and how that applies to the wall and then decided to have a wank instead of reading the rest of the article.
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Old 01-29-2019, 05:12 PM   #70
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You should have kept reading.

Quote:
“Less than one-third of the needed land is currently owned by the federal government,” explains Ilya Somin, a law professor at George Mason University. “The rest—as much as 1,300 miles—is held by private owners, Native American tribes, and state governments, many of whom are unlikely to sell voluntarily. Even if the wall does not cover the full 2,000 miles because it excludes some areas, such as those that have ‘natural’ barriers, many property owners will have to be displaced
Where my property rights advocates at?
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Old 01-29-2019, 05:28 PM   #71
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You should have kept reading.


Where my property rights advocates at?
I'm here and I've been mostly against the wall and the Constitutional law that legalized eminent domain.
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Old 01-29-2019, 05:35 PM   #72
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You should have kept reading.


Where my property rights advocates at?
This is another nugget that has been talked about since the campaign, but hasn't really delved nearly deep enough into the details to make it a point against the wall. We don't know how much private property will be needed, nor do we know in what way it will need to be acquired (through negotiated sale @ fair market value or through force sale) or if it will need to be acquired at all or will just be required access (some form of right of way/easement similar to utilities).

Last edited by IU_Knightmare; 01-29-2019 at 05:52 PM..
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Old 01-29-2019, 05:36 PM   #73
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I'm here and I've been mostly against the wall and the Constitutional law that legalized eminent domain.
When I'm King, invoking eminent domain and civil asset forfeiture will get you a first class train ticket to the gulag.

Also, side note, I thought that article you linked in the other thread about wall alternatives was interesting. I also liked it had the side benefit of expanding internet access.

Two birds! (One scone lol)
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Old 01-29-2019, 05:41 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
When I'm King, invoking eminent domain and civil asset forfeiture will get you a first class train ticket to the gulag.

Also, side note, I thought that article you linked in the other thread about wall alternatives was interesting. I also liked it had the side benefit of expanding internet access.

Two birds! (One scone lol)
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Old 01-30-2019, 08:12 AM   #75
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I'd settle for Eminent Domain requiring that the government pay 25 times the value of the property siezed. 25 times. So, if your motor home is worth $10,000, the government has to pay you $250,000 for it.

That would assure that, as originally intended, it was used sparingly and only in true necessity.

Secondly, I would require that any Federally owned land requires the Federal Government to pay the state it resides in 10 times the going rate in property taxes. Every year.

So, in a state such as Utah, it would be in their best interest to let the Feds hold the land, and it would be in the Feds best interest to release the land.

I would make an exception for situations where the State requests emergency funds from the Feds for any reason, whether it is fires, floods, bailout money, or whatever. In exchange, the Feds can sieze land in that state as collateral, and property taxes will be set at normal rates, withheld from the state at the normal rate, until such time as the emergency funds are repaid to the Federal government.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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