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Old 06-19-2019, 06:05 PM   #1
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Transgender Athletes; Should there be a Line?

https://www.boston.com/news/high-sch...ender-athletes

Thoughts? Personally, anyone who claims that transgendered women (biologically men) donít have a huge advantage are being deliberately obtuse.


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Old 06-19-2019, 06:55 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsFan09 View Post
https://www.boston.com/news/high-sch...ender-athletes

Thoughts? Personally, anyone who claims that transgendered women (biologically men) don’t have a huge advantage are being deliberately obtuse.


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Agreed, not to mention years of struggles to get scholarships, our own lockers rooms, decent sports programs via title nine.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...=.48d78d6ac5cd

They are still biological males like it or not.
Gender is a social norm, period end of discussion.

~Dee~

Last edited by deec77; 06-19-2019 at 07:02 PM..
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Old 06-23-2019, 09:27 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by deec77 View Post
Agreed, not to mention years of struggles to get scholarships, our own lockers rooms, decent sports programs via title nine.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...=.48d78d6ac5cd

They are still biological males like it or not.
Gender is a social norm, period end of discussion.

~Dee~
You can't change your DNA...you can lob off whatever sex organs you want, but, you're still whatever you were born as.
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Old 06-24-2019, 08:39 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Big/Sky/Fly View Post
You can't change your DNA...you can lob off whatever sex organs you want, but, you're still whatever you were born as.
Yes, but that would be considered a transsexual.

Using the term transgender doesnít necessarily mean transsexual. The terms arenít interchangeable no matter what the media and politicians claim. Gender has to do with societies norms concerning gender roles. Sex is a biological term.

Transsexuals believe they were born in the wrong body literally, and go to great lengths to change their bodies.

Transgenders ďidentifyĒ with the opposite gender roles and feel more comfortable with said roles.

Itís really doing a disservice to those who are transsexuals, by trivializing their plight.

~Dee~
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Old 06-24-2019, 08:53 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by deec77 View Post
yes, but that would be considered a transsexual.

Using the term transgender doesn’t necessarily mean transsexual. The terms aren’t interchangeable no matter what the media and politicians claim. Gender has to do with societies norms concerning gender roles. Sex is a biological term.

Transsexuals believe they were born in the wrong body literally, and go to great lengths to change their bodies.

Transgenders “identify” with the opposite gender roles and feel more comfortable with said roles.

It’s really doing a disservice to those who are transsexuals, by trivializing their plight.

~dee~
so basing where you play a sport based on biological makeup should be the solution. So put these biologically X,Y kids into the biologically X,Y offered sport to compete.
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Old 06-24-2019, 10:57 AM   #6
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so basing where you play a sport based on biological makeup should be the solution. So put these biologically X,Y kids into the biologically X,Y offered sport to compete.
Im ok with that.

~Dee~
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Old 06-24-2019, 05:56 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by deec77 View Post
Yes, but that would be considered a transsexual.

Using the term transgender doesn’t necessarily mean transsexual. The terms aren’t interchangeable no matter what the media and politicians claim. Gender has to do with societies norms concerning gender roles. Sex is a biological term.

Transsexuals believe they were born in the wrong body literally, and go to great lengths to change their bodies.

Transgenders “identify” with the opposite gender roles and feel more comfortable with said roles.

It’s really doing a disservice to those who are transsexuals, by trivializing their plight.

~Dee~
Didn't the Olympics do genetic testing back in the day when the East German's were doing shady things?

IIRC, they excluded some athletes from competing against other women, if they were not XX. That included some who had three, or more, chromosomes, as long as one of them was a Y.

They didn't do this testing on men because not being just an XY was not considered to provide an "advantage".

In other words, the policy was that someone who had any level of "male" chromosomes was thought to have an advantage against XX women. Whereas, having any female genetic attributes was not thought to provide an advantage, since "men" would outperform "women", at the Olympic level.

Were they wrong?

If the answer is "yes", then I assume that means we can get rid of the different requirements in the US military for physical fitness tests. (e.g., # of push ups, chin-ups, sit-ups, how one does sit-ups, etc.)
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Old 06-24-2019, 07:00 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
Didn't the Olympics do genetic testing back in the day when the East German's were doing shady things?

IIRC, they excluded some athletes from competing against other women, if they were not XX. That included some who had three, or more, chromosomes, as long as one of them was a Y.

They didn't do this testing on men because not being just an XY was not considered to provide an "advantage".

In other words, the policy was that someone who had any level of "male" chromosomes was thought to have an advantage against XX women. Whereas, having any female genetic attributes was not thought to provide an advantage, since "men" would outperform "women", at the Olympic level.

Were they wrong?

If the answer is "yes", then I assume that means we can get rid of the different requirements in the US military for physical fitness tests. (e.g., # of push ups, chin-ups, sit-ups, how one does sit-ups, etc.)
Once again I canít image they did gender testing but if they did it was all for not.

Drug testing yes, steroids yes absolutely, not sure what part has to do with ďgenderĒ. Iím ok with all youíve stated. Once more sex is a biological attribute gender is a social norm. Neither should be given a special exception to anything.

Iíve been pretty consistent in my stance I donít feel there should be special treatment anywhere based on biological differences. I have sons that served. As a women/mom Iíd preferred they served with whom ever past the psychological and physical test on equal grounds.

As mother of a daughter who is part of a military family. Iíd preferred she not have to pass or be responsible for others stronger and more equipped physically then she is. Thatís not a dig because she both physically and mentally fit. Just I wouldnít want her to feel responsible for those around her. Thereís a reason most women arenít considered combat ready. Some can definitely handle it most no.


~Dee~

Once more transgender and transsexual are 2 entirely different things. The Germans were niether they were women taking steroids to give them anadvantage. Now qualifying a male as a transgender to compete unfairly to give them an advantage equally unfair, I agree is BS.
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Old 06-24-2019, 08:49 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
Didn't the Olympics do genetic testing back in the day when the East German's were doing shady things?

IIRC, they excluded some athletes from competing against other women, if they were not XX. That included some who had three, or more, chromosomes, as long as one of them was a Y.

They didn't do this testing on men because not being just an XY was not considered to provide an "advantage".

In other words, the policy was that someone who had any level of "male" chromosomes was thought to have an advantage against XX women. Whereas, having any female genetic attributes was not thought to provide an advantage, since "men" would outperform "women", at the Olympic level.

Were they wrong?

If the answer is "yes", then I assume that means we can get rid of the different requirements in the US military for physical fitness tests. (e.g., # of push ups, chin-ups, sit-ups, how one does sit-ups, etc.)
Since 1968;

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conw...erTesting.html

https://www.topendsports.com/events/...er-testing.htm

However, looks like they are on their way to sending those female athletes back to the kitchen now...no biological women will be winning medals in the near future.

Olympics Will Drop Gender and Sex Testing For 2018 Winter Games

https://thefederalistpapers.org/spor...ansgender-2018
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:39 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by PatsFan09 View Post
https://www.boston.com/news/high-sch...ender-athletes

Thoughts? Personally, anyone who claims that transgendered women (biologically men) don’t have a huge advantage are being deliberately obtuse.


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Old 06-20-2019, 06:23 AM   #11
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"The Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference, which governs high school sports in the state, says its policy follows a state anti-discrimination law requiring students to be treated in school according to the gender with which they identify. That means that athletes can compete according to their expressed gender identity as opposed to their sex assigned at birth."

assigned seems to imply the hospital randomly appointed the label male or female as opposed to describing the sexual characteristics to which the child was born.

I am all for rights of people to identify themselves as male or female. I get some people feel trapped within themselves, while some are born with both characteristics, or ambiguous genitalia, that is a minority.

the only way to properly address this is to assign a new Birth test to check for X,X or X,Y Chromosomes and make that the deciding factor in the "Birth" designation that will be the deciding factor for which path you would take in gender based competitions. No longer will we have male/female sports but a new system in place calling for "Y" or "X" based on the testing done at birth. So all people who have a "X,Y" chromosomes participate together. Same with all born "X,X".

This will eliminate how one mentally identifies, forcing a DNA based allocation.
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:11 AM   #12
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This is obviously sad for talented athletes who deserve to compete on a level playing field. It’s ridiculous that the situation exists. But I do have to sneer at the politically correct morons driving all this gender based, sanctimonious argument. It’s blowing up on them in ways they’d never imagined. Do you give athletes a fair shot? Awful hard to support equality for women and support identifying as whatever gender you want.
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Old 06-20-2019, 02:19 PM   #13
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This is obviously sad for talented athletes who deserve to compete on a level playing field. Itís ridiculous that the situation exists. But I do have to sneer at the politically correct morons driving all this gender based, sanctimonious argument. Itís blowing up on them in ways theyíd never imagined. Do you give athletes a fair shot? Awful hard to support equality for women and support identifying as whatever gender you want.
This.

I say we let it carry on for awhile, letting the girly men crush the female athletes in every endeavor for a few years.

Then the feminists go to war with the LGBTQ crowd. It's a win-win.

On a serious note...let it go on for awhile until we see some sanity coming from the left on this issue. Let the ones who created the problem solve it.
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Old 06-20-2019, 02:37 PM   #14
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O.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that goodO.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that goodO.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that goodO.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that goodO.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that goodO.Z.O. should plot to take over the world, they're that good
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
This.

I say we let it carry on for awhile, letting the girly men crush the female athletes in every endeavor for a few years.

Then the feminists go to war with the LGBTQ crowd. It's a win-win.

On a serious note...let it go on for awhile until we see some sanity coming from the left on this issue. Let the ones who created the problem solve it.
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Old 06-20-2019, 03:40 PM   #15
patswin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
This.

I say we let it carry on for awhile, letting the girly men crush the female athletes in every endeavor for a few years.

Then the feminists go to war with the LGBTQ crowd. It's a win-win.

On a serious note...let it go on for awhile until we see some sanity coming from the left on this issue. Let the ones who created the problem solve it.
Good luck getting that genie back in the bottle!
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