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Old 03-07-2018, 04:58 PM   #421
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Crazy, but if even the slightest possibility JUMP!!!!!

https://nesn.com/2018/03/should-patr...rade-proposal/


Should Patriots Consider This Hypothetical Jadeveon Clowney Trade Proposal?

by Zack Cox on Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 10:56AM
Houston Texans outside linebacker Jadeveon Clowney
Photo via Greg M. Cooper/USA TODAY Sports Images

On Tuesday, ESPN.com’s Mike Sando compiled a list of five blockbuster NFL trades he’d like to see happen. Among them: a deal that would send Pro Bowl edge rusher Jadeveon Clowney to the pass-rush-needy New England Patriots.

In this scenario, the Houston Texans would trade Clowney to New England in exchange for the Patriots’ first-round pick in the 2018 NFL Draft (31st overall). Sando included a note that “NFL executives proposed, vetted and/or heard rumors about all five of these deals,” meaning at least a few higher-ups around the league believe this swap is theoretically possible.

“If the Texans think J.J. Watt will justify his current expensive contract for years to come,” Sando wrote, “they could have reservations about paying Clowney even more. This deal would help Houston recoup an early pick after sending its second-rounder to Cleveland in the Brock Osweiler deal.”

Would it be a smart move for the Patriots? Good question.

Clowney, a Pro Bowler in each of the last two seasons and first-team All-Pro in 2016, is an elite pass rusher, and he’s coming off the best statistical season of his career.

The 25-year-old recorded 9 1/2 sacks and 21 quarterback hits in 2017 while also ranking second in the NFL in tackles for loss with 21, tallying two interceptions, two forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries, and playing in all 16 games for the first time in his career. He’s a beast, plain and simple.

The idea of pairing Clowney with Patriots defensive end Trey Flowers is intriguing, to say the least, and help on the edge is one of the Pats’ biggest areas of need this offseason. His price tag could give New England pause, though, as the top pick in the 2014 draft is set to make $13.8 million this season and is entering the final year of his rookie contract.

Would it be worth surrendering a first-round pick for a player who could only be in Foxboro for one season, even if that player is as talented as Clowney? Maybe, but probably not. (It’s worth noting the Patriots likely would land a 2020 compensatory pick if Clowney left in free agency, so the trade could end up being the 31st pick this year for Clowney and a third- or fourth-rounder two years from now.)

Sando’s list also includes a proposal involving Patriots wide receiver Brandin Cooks, whom the Patriots parted ways with a first-round pick to acquire around this time last year. In that hypothetical trade, New England would send Cooks — who, like Clowney, is entering the fifth and final year of his rookie deal — to either the Chicago Bears or the Washington Redskins in exchange for a 2018 second-round pick.

This one seems even less desirable for New England. Cooks has his flaws as a player, and his cap hit balloons from $1.56 million to $8.46 million this season, but he still caught 65 passes for 1,082 yards and seven touchdowns in his first season as a Patriot. Giving him up for a second-round pick doesn’t sound like good value, especially with the 2020 comp pick likely heading the Patriots’ way if he signs elsewhere next spring.
Cooks for Clowney? This would be a no brainer...Cooks sucks. Dorsett could be as good as Cooks. They both play about the same.
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:42 PM   #422
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Originally Posted by Dwight Schrute View Post
Apparently the Pats were one of the final 4 teams in play for acquiring Michael Bennett.

He’s a 32 yr old high $ pass rusher.

So the notion of them interested in a 25 yr old All Pro doesn’t seem all that far fetched now.
Andddd....Marty Bennett was released. Now he'll probably sign in Philly, too.
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:50 PM   #423
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Understandable.

But his games played went UP each of the last 3 seasons, including all 16 last year.
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:53 PM   #424
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Andddd....Marty Bennett was released. Now he'll probably sign in Philly, too.
Another retiree in place this year.

Let them have him.
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Old 03-08-2018, 02:12 AM   #425
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That Sando article trade is as likely as trading Dwayne Allen to get Jimmy G back.

If they think JJ Watt is healthy? He is always injured over the last few years.

I live in Houston and go to Texans games. Clowney is going nowhere. The team, town, FO, and owner love the guy and expect great things from him in the future.
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Old 03-08-2018, 05:06 AM   #426
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Originally Posted by skippyx View Post
That Sando article trade is as likely as trading Dwayne Allen to get Jimmy G back.

If they think JJ Watt is healthy? He is always injured over the last few years.

I live in Houston and go to Texans games. Clowney is going nowhere. The team, town, FO, and owner love the guy and expect great things from him in the future.
I thought you lived in Philly? I remember you posting that during the playoffs.
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Old 03-08-2018, 06:51 AM   #427
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Bennett is their typical signing. He is 32 with a couple of years left on his deal. All Philly gave was a JAG receiver and swapped a 7 and a 5. I would love to know what BB was willing to part with. I would imagine less than that. I am shocked the Hawks sent him to Philly and not the AFC.

I can't stand Bennett so I am glad it fell through. I love his brother though. lol.
Read last night that it was a 3 and a 5 but Seattle had already verbally agreed to the deal with Philly and they didn't want to reneg.

Not sure I believe that. You take that offer back to Philly and either get more or say sorry, we found a better deal.
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Old 03-08-2018, 07:06 AM   #428
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Read last night that it was a 3 and a 5 but Seattle had already verbally agreed to the deal with Philly and they didn't want to reneg.

Not sure I believe that. You take that offer back to Philly and either get more or say sorry, we found a better deal.
Really? The 3 and 5 is MORE that what Philly offered. They swapped a 5 for a 7 and threw in a JAG receiver. Really dumb move by Seattle to trade them to the Eagles and not send him out of conference. I wonder if Petey is still sore from SB 49. Not that I would blame him. lol.
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Old 03-08-2018, 07:41 AM   #429
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Originally Posted by patfan64 View Post
Read last night that it was a 3 and a 5 but Seattle had already verbally agreed to the deal with Philly and they didn't want to reneg.

Not sure I believe that. You take that offer back to Philly and either get more or say sorry, we found a better deal.
We don’t have a 5, so unless you mean we swap a 3 for Bennett and a 5 it’s unpossible
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Old 03-08-2018, 08:37 AM   #430
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I just don’t know his $ demands.

[Cooks] is not a game changer in the Top WR mold like Julio Jones.

If they get out from under him at a cost of only 5-10 draft spots and have more dough I’m good. Hurdling and circling the middle of the field only to get ear holed tells me there’s questions with his football IQ.
Hmmm. After a little thought, allow me to point out some things.

In the AFCCG w/Gronk out, Cooks had 6 catches for 100 yards plus another 68 penalty yards against the Jags for PI. Without Cooks the Pats don't sniff the SB.

Cooks in 2017: 65 rec, 1082 yds, 16.6 avg, 7 TDs, $1.5M
JJones in 2017: 88 rec, 1444 yds, 16.4 avg, 3 TDs, $14M

Cooks was very productive in his 1st year with Brady. He was a bargain and definitely worth the 1st round pick.
I see the value in Cooks even though his salary option is $8M for 2018. His production should go up in 2018, a contract year. 2019 will take care of itself.

He's not Julio, agreed, but remember Atlanta traded five draft picks to the Cleveland Browns to move up into their 6th spot and take Jones in 2011. Atlanta gave up their 27th, 59th, and 124th picks from the 2011 Draft, and their first and fourth round picks from the 2012 Draft. That's a lot of draft equity to give up plus the Falcons are also paying him BIG $$$.

I'm happy with Cooks.
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Old 03-08-2018, 09:26 AM   #431
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Originally Posted by chevss454 View Post
Hmmm. After a little thought, allow me to point out some things.

In the AFCCG w/Gronk out, Cooks had 6 catches for 100 yards plus another 68 penalty yards against the Jags for PI. Without Cooks the Pats don't sniff the SB.

Cooks in 2017: 65 rec, 1082 yds, 16.6 avg, 7 TDs, $1.5M
JJones in 2017: 88 rec, 1444 yds, 16.4 avg, 3 TDs, $14M

Cooks was very productive in his 1st year with Brady. He was a bargain and definitely worth the 1st round pick.
I see the value in Cooks even though his salary option is $8M for 2018. His production should go up in 2018, a contract year. 2019 will take care of itself.

He's not Julio, agreed, but remember Atlanta traded five draft picks to the Cleveland Browns to move up into their 6th spot and take Jones in 2011. Atlanta gave up their 27th, 59th, and 124th picks from the 2011 Draft, and their first and fourth round picks from the 2012 Draft. That's a lot of draft equity to give up plus the Falcons are also paying him BIG $$$.

I'm happy with Cooks.
Great post chev.

It’s not that I’m disappointed in Cooks or think he doesn’t have value. I just think the production he brings can be replaced by TB spreading the ball to other targets.

Impact defensive play can’t(and how this correlates is the ability for the team to use Cooks $ elsewhere). It’s time to rebuild a ferocious D. It’ll help TB more than another receiving option. And it’ll be critical for Lauletta or whomever else they draft and develop.

I can’t think of a better building block than Clowney if these rumors have legs.
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Old 03-08-2018, 12:50 PM   #432
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Cooks was pretty valuable to Brady last year. For perspective.
Maybe the Pats are better off cutting those who did nothing to help the team last year (Branch, Gillislee, McClellin et al) & getting the IR players healthy. The D needs help for sure but Cooks is too valuable to target as a cut.

GP, REC, YDS, AVG, Y/G, YAC, TD, LNG, >25yds, 100+games, TGT, Drops, PCT, F, FL, 1st Downs, PCT 1st Downs.

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</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">14</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">69</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">1084</td> <td>15.7</td> <td>77.4</td> <td>363</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">8</td> <td>53</td> <td>11</td> <td>3</td> <td>105</td> <td>3</td> <td>65.7%</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>57</td> <td>82.6%</td> </tr><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"> <td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 2 Cooks, Brandin WR
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">16</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">65</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">1082</td> <td>16.7</td> <td>67.6</td> <td>243</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">7</td> <td>64</td> <td>15</td> <td>2</td> <td>114</td> <td>4</td> <td>57.0%</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>42</td> <td>64.6%</td> </tr><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"> <td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 3 Amendola, Danny WR
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">15</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">61</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">659</td> <td>10.8</td> <td>43.9</td> <td>206</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">2</td> <td>27</td> <td>4</td> <td>1</td> <td>86</td> <td>4</td> <td>70.9%</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>40</td> <td>65.6%</td> </tr><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"> <td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 4 Hogan, Chris WR
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">9</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">34</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">439</td> <td>12.9</td> <td>48.8</td> <td>160</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">5</td> <td>47</td> <td>5</td> <td>0</td> <td>59</td> <td>2</td> <td>57.6%</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>22</td> <td>64.7%</td> </tr><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"> <td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 5 White, James RB
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">14</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">56</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">429</td> <td>7.7</td> <td>30.6</td> <td>357</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">3</td> <td>27</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>72</td> <td>1</td> <td>77.8%</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>25</td> <td>44.6%</td> </tr><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"> <td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 6 Burkhead, Rex RB
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">10</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">30</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">254</td> <td>8.5</td> <td>25.4</td> <td>193</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">3</td> <td>23</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>36</td> <td>1</td> <td>83.3%</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>13</td> <td>43.3%</td> </tr><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"> <td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 7 Lewis, Dion RB
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">16</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">32</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">214</td> <td>6.7</td> <td>13.4</td> <td>239</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">3</td> <td>20</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>35</td> <td>0</td> <td>91.4%</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>11</td> <td>34.4%</td> </tr><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"> <td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 8 Dorsett, Phillip WR
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">15</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">12</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">194</td> <td>16.2</td> <td>12.9</td> <td>71</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">0</td> <td>39</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>18</td> <td>1</td> <td>66.7%</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>8</td> <td>66.7%</td> </tr><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"> <td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 9 Allen, Dwayne TE
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">16</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">10</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">86</td> <td>8.6</td> <td>5.4</td> <td>67</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">1</td> <td>22</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>22</td> <td>1</td> <td>45.5%</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>5</td> <td>50.0%</td> </tr><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"> <td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 10 Bennett, Martellus TE
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">2</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">6</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">53</td> <td>8.8</td> <td>26.5</td> <td>50</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">0</td> <td>27</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>6</td> <td>0</td> <td>100.0%</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>16.7%</td></tr></tbody></table>
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Old 03-08-2018, 01:35 PM   #433
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Originally Posted by chevss454 View Post
Cooks was pretty valuable to Brady last year. For perspective.
Maybe the Pats are better off cutting those who did nothing to help the team last year (Branch, Gillislee, McClellin et al) & getting the IR players healthy. The D needs help for sure but Cooks is too valuable to target as a cut.

GP, REC, YDS, AVG, Y/G, YAC, TD, LNG, >25yds, 100+games, TGT, Drops, PCT, F, FL, 1st Downs, PCT 1st Downs.

<table class="wisbb_standardTable tablesorter tablesorter-default" data-sortlist="[[3,1]]" role="grid"><tbody><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"><td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 1 Gronkowski, Rob TE
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">14</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">69</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">1084</td> <td>15.7</td> <td>77.4</td> <td>363</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">8</td> <td>53</td> <td>11</td> <td>3</td> <td>105</td> <td>3</td> <td>65.7%</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>57</td> <td>82.6%</td> </tr><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"> <td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 2 Cooks, Brandin WR
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">16</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">65</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">1082</td> <td>16.7</td> <td>67.6</td> <td>243</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">7</td> <td>64</td> <td>15</td> <td>2</td> <td>114</td> <td>4</td> <td>57.0%</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>42</td> <td>64.6%</td> </tr><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"> <td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 3 Amendola, Danny WR
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">15</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">61</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">659</td> <td>10.8</td> <td>43.9</td> <td>206</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">2</td> <td>27</td> <td>4</td> <td>1</td> <td>86</td> <td>4</td> <td>70.9%</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>40</td> <td>65.6%</td> </tr><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"> <td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 4 Hogan, Chris WR
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">9</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">34</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">439</td> <td>12.9</td> <td>48.8</td> <td>160</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">5</td> <td>47</td> <td>5</td> <td>0</td> <td>59</td> <td>2</td> <td>57.6%</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>22</td> <td>64.7%</td> </tr><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"> <td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 5 White, James RB
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">14</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">56</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">429</td> <td>7.7</td> <td>30.6</td> <td>357</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">3</td> <td>27</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>72</td> <td>1</td> <td>77.8%</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>25</td> <td>44.6%</td> </tr><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"> <td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 6 Burkhead, Rex RB
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">10</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">30</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">254</td> <td>8.5</td> <td>25.4</td> <td>193</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">3</td> <td>23</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>36</td> <td>1</td> <td>83.3%</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>13</td> <td>43.3%</td> </tr><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"> <td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 7 Lewis, Dion RB
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">16</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">32</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">214</td> <td>6.7</td> <td>13.4</td> <td>239</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">3</td> <td>20</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>35</td> <td>0</td> <td>91.4%</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>11</td> <td>34.4%</td> </tr><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"> <td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 8 Dorsett, Phillip WR
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">15</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">12</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">194</td> <td>16.2</td> <td>12.9</td> <td>71</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">0</td> <td>39</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>18</td> <td>1</td> <td>66.7%</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>8</td> <td>66.7%</td> </tr><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"> <td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 9 Allen, Dwayne TE
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">16</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">10</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">86</td> <td>8.6</td> <td>5.4</td> <td>67</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">1</td> <td>22</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>22</td> <td>1</td> <td>45.5%</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>5</td> <td>50.0%</td> </tr><tr class="wisbb_fvStand " role="row"> <td class="wisbb_text wisbb_fixedColumn"> 10 Bennett, Martellus TE
</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">2</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">6</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn wisbb_selected">53</td> <td>8.8</td> <td>26.5</td> <td>50</td> <td class="wisbb_priorityColumn">0</td> <td>27</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>6</td> <td>0</td> <td>100.0%</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>16.7%</td></tr></tbody></table>
Dorset has better percentages.

Given the increase in snaps he could replicate close to or better production.

NOBODY on D can do what a Clowney acquisition would provide. That’s where my money would go, if possible.
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Old 03-08-2018, 01:53 PM   #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Schrute View Post
Dorset has better percentages.

Given the increase in snaps he could replicate close to or better production.

NOBODY on D can do what a Clowney acquisition would provide. That’s where my money would go, if possible.
I think Dorsett can be good and from I've heard he's sticking around for 2018 to see. Cooks has already shown he's good and that was his floor last year imo.

Clowney opposite Flowers would be solid but at $13.8M he's a heavy load for Caserio's cap. He's going into the last year of his rookie deal so he'd likely only be around for a year. Sorry. Argue all you want but he's not worth a 1st as a 1 year rental.
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Old 03-08-2018, 02:02 PM   #435
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