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Old 02-15-2018, 10:45 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benhamean View Post
The 'nothing can prevent all of these types of incidents' (so do nothing) argument is a gem.



The 'mental illness + guns' combination as an excuse to also do nothing is a gem.


This country is off it's fucking rocker with gun fetishism stoked by a hugely moneyed lobby with politicians firmly in its pocket. Its really great that kids need to be murdered in school approximately every 2 days this year so gun manufacturers can provide newer fancier and deadlier wood and metal masturbatory items to functional hoarders.

Really wonderful.
No, they did something. This was last year, but they took quick action!!!

Quote:
Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses
by ALI VITALI

President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.

The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.

Had the rule fully taken effect, the Obama administration predicted it would have added about 75,000 names to that database.

President Barack Obama recommended the now-nullified regulation in a 2013 memo following the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, which left 20 first graders and six others dead. The measure sought to block some people with severe mental health problems from buying guns.

The original rule was hotly contested by gun rights advocates who said it infringed on Americans’ Second Amendment rights. Gun control advocates, however, praised the rule for curbing the availability of firearms to those who may not use them with the right intentions.

Both the House and Senate last week passed the new bill, H.J. Res 40, revoking the Obama-era regulation.

Trump signed the bill into law without a photo op or fanfare. The president welcomed cameras into the oval office Tuesday for the signing of other executive orders and bills. News that the president signed the bill was tucked at the bottom of a White House email alerting press to other legislation signed by the president.

The National Rifle Association “applauded” Trump’s action. Chris Cox, NRA-ILA executive director, said the move “marks a new era for law-abiding gun owners, as we now have a president who respects and supports our arms.”

Everytown For Gun Safety President John Feinblatt said he expected more gun control rollbacks from the Trump administration. In a statement to NBC News, he called the action "just the first item on the gun lobby’s wish list" and accused the National Rifle Association of "pushing more guns, for more people, in more places."

Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., a leading gun control advocate in Congress, called out Republicans over the move.

"Republicans always say we don’t need new gun laws, we just need to enforce the laws already on the books. But the bill signed into law today undermines enforcement of existing laws that Congress passed to make sure the background check system had complete information," he said in an emailed statement.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:45 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehrick67 View Post
Apparently the FBI was warned about this guy and a possible shooting months ago...
Question- if he had already purchased his gun, what could the FBI do until he actually committed a crime?

Question 2- unless the crime was one of violence, could his guns be taken away anyway?

Not being snarky with these questions. I just don't know what the actual recourse could have been, as it seems that once a gun is obtained the 'cold dead hands' option seems to be one of the only ways to get it away from someone, no matter how fucked up they seem.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:49 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsFanLisa View Post
No, they did something. This was last year, but they took quick action!!!
Well, thank God for that. The mentally ill should have the freedom to stockpile ridiculous arsenals just like everyone else and anything that delays their access to firearms and ammunition is a SLIPPERY SLOPE.

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Old 02-15-2018, 10:49 AM   #34
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If the price of liberty is seeing High School students, or concert goers or people at a dance club or anyone else get blown away 2-3 times a year, I question the price.

If the NRA is really serious maybe they should start coming up with something more than "thoughts and prayers" because eventually a lot of people are going to ask the same question.

And please spare me the full Alex Jones false flag bullshit.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:50 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anderson View Post
Mental health is a red herring, since most shootings are not done by people with diagnosable mental illnesses, but that argument works nicely to deflect from the real culprit (data supported) which is gun availability.

School had two armed guards, apparently.
You always frame your points with an assumption and in this case you discount mental illness as an factor in mass shootings. . You're dead wrong. Stop it.
Your objective is not discussion or problem solving, it's using this to gain political capital. Perhaps Dee who works in the field will agree with me.

And you're not interested in opposing viewpoints, so stop that too.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:51 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anderson View Post
Interestingly, a majority of the American public has been convinced mental health issues is the prevailing reason for these types of shootings (despite it not being supported by data).

Sorry, the breakdown of family core and morals in this country is the prevailing issue. The shit taught in schools. The bombardment 24/7 of every kind of sick, twisted pleasure. A pill for every ill, I can go on...

And yet we wonder.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:51 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benhamean View Post
Question- if he had already purchased his gun, what could the FBI do until he actually committed a crime?

Question 2- unless the crime was one of violence, could his guns be taken away anyway?

Not being snarky with these questions. I just don't know what the actual recourse could have been, as it seems that once a gun is obtained the 'cold dead hands' option seems to be one of the only ways to get it away from someone, no matter how fucked up they seem.
A good question and I don't know the answer. If the Government can take your house and money, seize your car and other assets. I'd assume they could do something about this guy - as it appears nobody is surprised he did this..
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:54 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anderson View Post
Oh and let's also make sure that no federal money is being used to research the causes of gun violence. Because the NRA said so.
Again..more proof...you have to lie and misstate the facts to bolster your viewpoint.

What the NRA opposes is the left's efforts to make gun violence a health issue, and thus able to be regulated by groups like the AMA and avoid any due process or legislative speed bumps, and to make it mandatory for doctors to report any diagnoses to the Feds if their patient is a gun owner, so the Feds can revoke that person's 2nd Amendment rights.

It's not "research into the causes of gun violence"...that is utter BS, and you don't need millions and billions of dollars of tax money to do that...I can tell you right now....suicide, mental illness, behavioral modifying pharmaceuticals, gang violence, drug violence. There you go. That accounts for the gun violence in America, in no particular order. I just saved America Billions of dollars.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benhamean View Post
Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:01 AM   #39
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Ah there's an excellent deflection. The FBI knew all along so it's their fault.

So anytime the FBI is warned about someone being a possible danger, we take their guns away! Cool. I'm gonna put them on speed dial.

There are over 300 million private guns in the United States, effectively one for every man woman and child in the country, but that has nothing to do with the fact that once a month or some some nut get's his hands on high capacity firearms and kills a bunch of random people.

It's because of Mental Illness.

You know the really funny part of the joke. His Grande Orangness has submitted a budget which would lead to devastating cuts in funding to Medicaid and Medicare which are the primary sources of Mental Health funding.

The GOP wants to gut the ACA, which provides much needed coverage for Mental Health and substance abuse issues.

And now when firearms are being blamed for a mass shooting we'll play the Mental Health Card.

Don't insult my intelligence.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:01 AM   #40
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Maybe the solution is to not allow organizations like the NRA to contribute to lawmakers and/or their campaigns.

That might change their minds to do something fairly quickly.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:02 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patswin View Post
You always frame your points with an assumption and in this case you discount mental illness as an factor in mass shootings. . You're dead wrong. Stop it.
Your objective is not discussion or problem solving, it's using this to gain political capital. Perhaps Dee who works in the field will agree with me.

And you're not interested in opposing viewpoints, so stop that too.
I am very interested in opposing viewpoints, but not when they're bullshit talking points from Fox News (or in some cases, the President's twitter account).

I never said that mental illness couldn't be a factor in mass shootings (on a case-by-case basis), but there's no data to support the claim that mental health issues are the driving cause behind these shootings. Data simply does not support it and repeating the point ad nauseam, that we should have a debate on mental health issues, serves no point since data suggests that violent behavior in mentally ill people more or less follows the trends of people with no mental health issues.

What we DO have is strong indications of causality with regards to shootings and accessibility of legal firearms, but that's a point the right seeks to avoid at all costs and that's not really so strange given the deep pockets of the NRA.

I suspect none of these points will be given any consideration with you, so all your grandstanding regarding political capital and ignoring opposing viewpoints is, well, simply grandstanding and nothing else.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:04 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
Again..more proof...you have to lie and misstate the facts to bolster your viewpoint.

What the NRA opposes is the left's efforts to make gun violence a health issue, and thus able to be regulated by groups like the AMA and avoid any due process or legislative speed bumps, and to make it mandatory for doctors to report any diagnoses to the Feds if their patient is a gun owner, so the Feds can revoke that person's 2nd Amendment rights.

It's not "research into the causes of gun violence"...that is utter BS, and you don't need millions and billions of dollars of tax money to do that...I can tell you right now....suicide, mental illness, behavioral modifying pharmaceuticals, gang violence, drug violence. There you go. That accounts for the gun violence in America, in no particular order. I just saved America Billions of dollars.
Boohoo. Pro2'er throwing in the victim card as well. If only the wicked leftists weren't so busy turning people into gay frogs and taking said frogs' firearms away we would be in a better place. FOH.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:04 AM   #43
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Don't you think it's about time we stopped selling the AR15, and it's variants, to the public? Will that stop all of these? Probably not. But that weapon has been involved in an inordinate number of these mass killings, and anyone who carried an M16 in the military, and is honest with himself/herself, knows why. It's ergonomic, it's easy to use, and it's effective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GQwIW_xMQs

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Old 02-15-2018, 11:10 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOldTroll View Post
Sorry, the breakdown of family core and morals in this country is the prevailing issue. The shit taught in schools. The bombardment 24/7 of every kind of sick, twisted pleasure. A pill for every ill, I can go on...

And yet we wonder.
Are we (the US) that much different from other industrialized countries as far as our morality and such?

Because we are very very different from just about every country in the amount of gun related violence we have.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:19 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by AnOldTroll View Post
Sorry, the breakdown of family core and morals in this country is the prevailing issue. The shit taught in schools. The bombardment 24/7 of every kind of sick, twisted pleasure. A pill for every ill, I can go on...

And yet we wonder.

Good lord, aren't we beyond this kind of thinking yet?

Falwell Suggests Gays to Blame for Attacks
By MARC AMBINDER W A S H I N G T O N, Sept. 14

"It was Rep. Ellen Tauscher, D-Calif., calling to tell Birch about a Washington Post article on an exchange between Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson in which the two well-known Christian conservatives appeared to suggest homosexuals, abortion-rights supporters and liberal civil-rights activists were partly to blame for the terrorist attacks that toppled the World Trade Center and destroyed part of the Pentagon, killing thousands."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121322
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