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Old 10-18-2011, 07:41 AM   #46
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As for the productivity argument...which we have had before....Americans are highly productive mainly because of outsourcing.

The way productivity is calculated, the fewer Americans you employ the higher your productivity, if you can outsource most of the work being done and still provide abundant goods and services.
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Old 10-18-2011, 06:52 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
As for the productivity argument...which we have had before....Americans are highly productive mainly because of outsourcing.

The way productivity is calculated, the fewer Americans you employ the higher your productivity, if you can outsource most of the work being done and still provide abundant goods and services.

Outsourcing has nothing to do with it.

The UN group who came up with those numbers defined their terms here
Definitions and sources
Productivity represents the amount of output per unit of input. In this chapter, output is measured as gross domestic product (GDP), which represents the compensation for input of services from capital (including depreciation) and labour directly engaged in the production. The GDP concepts for the aggregate economy are expressed at market prices, which reflect the market value of the output produced.
And what is the definition of GDP?
GDP. The total market value of all final goods and services produced in a country in a given year, equal to total consumer, investment and government spending, plus the value of exports, minus the value of imports.
So outsourcing will not contribute to GDP and so can't count for productivity.
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:39 PM   #48
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Old 10-19-2011, 11:45 AM   #49
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Gallup Poll suggests more blame government than Wall St for economy

http://www.gallup.com/poll/150191/Am...gn=syndication

Which is not to say there isn't plenty of blame to go around, however.
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Old 10-19-2011, 11:55 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by patswin View Post
http://www.gallup.com/poll/150191/Am...gn=syndication

Which is not to say there isn't plenty of blame to go around, however.
56% blame government "a great deal" and 45% blame financial institutions "a great deal".

All told, 87% put blame on government, and 78% put blame on Wall Street.

They put slightly more blame on government, but they are running fairly even.
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:08 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Steve-o View Post
56% blame government "a great deal" and 45% blame financial institutions "a great deal".

All told, 87% put blame on government, and 78% put blame on Wall Street.

They put slightly more blame on government, but they are running fairly even.
But I guess this suggests that that the 99% slogan thrown around by these protesters is perhaps a little inaccurate.
It also makes one wonder why no protesters are targeting Washington DC, since a clear majority see government as the major problem. Where's the outrage?

My conclusion would be that a fair number of people will be protesting with their votes come next fall.
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:14 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Steve-o View Post
56% blame government "a great deal" and 45% blame financial institutions "a great deal".

All told, 87% put blame on government, and 78% put blame on Wall Street.

They put slightly more blame on government, but they are running fairly even.

Rather then putting blame where it belongs which is on themselves.
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:22 PM   #53
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Rather then putting blame where it belongs which is on themselves.
So, Wall Street had no part in the collapse, the bailouts, and the recession?

Everything was on the up and up?
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:26 PM   #54
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I do love the persistence of "blame themselves".

Blame ourselves for the fact that the average worker's wages have been stagnant for 30 years, while productivity has SOARED, and the rich have seen a huge income increase in the same time period?

Yeah, that makes sense.
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:50 PM   #55
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It is amazing to me how callous some can be... the same folks who can be so dismissive of people who are struggling on the one hand and then on the other state that they identify with a philosophy which embraces empathy and charity.

The greatest trick the right ever pulled on this country was getting average folks to buy into a political ideology which is NOT in their own best interests. It's mind-boggling to me.

While some will label the protesters as "freaks" and whatnot and side with Big Business, Big Banks, Big Tobacco, the corrupt Consumer Lending Industry et. al., the fatcats are laughing at you. You think they're on "your" side - they're not, even if you're on their side. You are nothing to them - a consumer of goods, a potential buck, a profit margin. You're embracing unbridled greed and a lack of concern about one's fellow human being. It's like that scene from the documenatary "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room" (have you seen it, those of you who are against "Occupy"?) - the big wigs and fat cats LAUGH at the idea of people struggling - They are actually laughing at people's pain. You think this is an isolated incident in the world of big business. It's not. There are tons of guys like that - they're like cockroaches - or perhaps Koch-Roaches. And they've actually got some blue-collar Joe's fighting their fight for them. It disgusts me. This thread disgusts me. How feeble-minded are you??
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:54 PM   #56
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I do love the persistence of "blame themselves".

Blame ourselves for the fact that the average worker's wages have been stagnant for 30 years, while productivity has SOARED, and the rich have seen a huge income increase in the same time period?

Yeah, that makes sense.
All because of big govt welfarism which includes corporatism. Remember the more socialism ( aka welfare) the more we get equal poverty.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:43 PM   #57
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So, Wall Street had no part in the collapse, the bailouts, and the recession?

Everything was on the up and up?

Did I say that Wall Street didn't create their own problems? They have no one to blame but themselves and shouldn't have been bailed out.

The same goes for people who buy much bigger houses then they need and then can't pay for them or people who go to colleges that they can't afford. These are just a few examples of people who have created their own problems and should be responsible for them.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:46 PM   #58
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It is amazing to me how callous some can be... the same folks who can be so dismissive of people who are struggling on the one hand and then on the other state that they identify with a philosophy which embraces empathy and charity.

The greatest trick the right ever pulled on this country was getting average folks to buy into a political ideology which is NOT in their own best interests. It's mind-boggling to me.

While some will label the protesters as "freaks" and whatnot and side with Big Business, Big Banks, Big Tobacco, the corrupt Consumer Lending Industry et. al., the fatcats are laughing at you. You think they're on "your" side - they're not, even if you're on their side. You are nothing to them - a consumer of goods, a potential buck, a profit margin. You're embracing unbridled greed and a lack of concern about one's fellow human being. It's like that scene from the documenatary "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room" (have you seen it, those of you who are against "Occupy"?) - the big wigs and fat cats LAUGH at the idea of people struggling - They are actually laughing at people's pain. You think this is an isolated incident in the world of big business. It's not. There are tons of guys like that - they're like cockroaches - or perhaps Koch-Roaches. And they've actually got some blue-collar Joe's fighting their fight for them. It disgusts me. This thread disgusts me. How feeble-minded are you??

Only a simpleton would think that our problems can be solved by Socialism. A simpleton with a poor understanding of history and an even poorer understanding of human nature.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:57 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
Outsourcing has nothing to do with it.

The UN group who came up with those numbers defined their terms here
Definitions and sources
Productivity represents the amount of output per unit of input. In this chapter, output is measured as gross domestic product (GDP), which represents the compensation for input of services from capital (including depreciation) and labour directly engaged in the production. The GDP concepts for the aggregate economy are expressed at market prices, which reflect the market value of the output produced.
And what is the definition of GDP?
GDP. The total market value of all final goods and services produced in a country in a given year, equal to total consumer, investment and government spending, plus the value of exports, minus the value of imports.
So outsourcing will not contribute to GDP and so can't count for productivity.
You just validated my point.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:57 PM   #60
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Only a simpleton would think that our problems can be solved by Socialism. A simpleton with a poor understanding of history and an even poorer understanding of human nature.
Yes, because I clearly suggested that the only viable alternative is socialism.

But on that note, how would you say this whole capitalism thing is working out? Very, very well for a few, but not so great for the masses? Or are you too deluded to even be able to able to make such an unbiased observation?

The solution is not nearly so dramatic as pure socialism, however. It's a revamping of the current tax system to a scaled rate system in which higher earnings are taxed at a progressively higher percentage. That and a return to the common-sense observation that corporations are not people and should not be treated as individuals, but as entities. Add to that a fraction-of-a-cent tax on stock trades (largely to discourage the mass computer-based trading that provides no real value to the economy) and higher taxation on vice products which contribute nothing positive to society (i.e. tobacco, alcohol and firearms) and the problem can be managed so that a capitalist market can function without exploitation.
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