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Old 04-15-2016, 01:57 PM   #1
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Heroin, Meth and how our society/govt. deals with it.

Is anyone else on PP dealing with this in some form?
Couldn't figure out how to make a poll.

We get documentaries on the problem, but no bleeping help.
Frustrating.

Guessing with all the members here, it has had to affect someone. BUT its still a taboo subject, right?

thoughts.
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Old 04-15-2016, 02:31 PM   #2
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Is anyone else on PP dealing with this in some form? Couldn't figure out how to make a poll. We get documentaries on the problem, but no bleeping help. Frustrating. Guessing with all the members here, it has had to affect someone. BUT its still a taboo subject, right? thoughts.
Hasn't affected me in the slightest, to be honest. I do not personally know anyone who has used these drugs.
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Old 04-15-2016, 02:40 PM   #3
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Some extended family, friends of friends have dealt with the fallout from Heroin. Not much Meth around here but the opiates are out of control.

I feel like in Mass there is at least a sense that there is a problem and some general ideas are being tried out.

Limiting Opiate scripts, narcan in general use, there probably needs to be more treatment options available but at the end of the day you can't force anyone to get straight.
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Old 04-15-2016, 03:06 PM   #4
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Its my oldest.

Path to his destruction started in a doctor's office and prescriptions to "manage" wrist injury pain. This was at age 20. He's 28 now.

About 70k later trying to get him back, he is in jail for the 1st time going on 7 days (refused to bail him out) awaiting a hearing.

Wondered if there where some addicts posting here or someone with similar experience that can give me advice. PM if you want.

Reason its in this forum, I believe our society/ govt is approaching this issue from the wrong end. Making it unlikely it will improve.

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Old 04-15-2016, 03:12 PM   #5
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Wish I had something to offer, one of my Bros went through it with his youngest. He's been straight for a while but there was a lot of pain to get there.
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Old 04-15-2016, 04:10 PM   #6
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I have no personal experience with that, except for an old friend of mine that passed away years ago, but he had brain cancer for a long time, so I guess noone really saw it as a "problem", since it was his only way to escape the side effects of the cancer for a time.

I wish I could be more help, but I can only give a sort of truism for advice.

You can't help those who don't want to be helped. I guess the first priority I would try, is come up with a plan to generate a desire for help. If you can accomplish that, the battle is half over.

I would say that a velvet glove would work better than an iron one, but I think you did the right thing not bailing him out, and it would be unreasonable to expect him to understand or not to resent it.

It had to be a damned hard thing to do. I admire your strength, and that is the sort of strength you will need to maintain. I would caution you to control your own desires and resentment and anger....the further you push him away, the harder it will be to reform him.

Be only as harsh as you must in your actions, but remain thinking and rational even when you are angry or hurt....if you don't keep your cool, you may miss your best opportunity to come together with him.

Anger and resentment can be as destructive as the drugs. Remember that. Tough love is sometimes hard to separate from evil emotions....but you must.

Whatever you do, don't try to force any sort of humiliation on him. That won't work. Drug addicts tend to be full of a false pride to protect themselves from self loathing, and any action by you that reminds them of their self loathing will get bad results.

In all interactions, assume he loathes himself and act accordingly.

I repeat, all this is theoretical on my part, I am highly unqualified. Just trying to help.
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Old 04-15-2016, 05:34 PM   #7
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Hasn't affected me in the slightest, to be honest. I do not personally know anyone who has used these drugs.
Interesting, aren't you currently in the teaching profession (in an affluent neighborhood) or am I mixing you up with someone else?
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Old 04-15-2016, 05:44 PM   #8
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Drug addicts tend to be full of a false pride to protect themselves from self loathing, and any action by you that reminds them of their self loathing will get bad results.

In all interactions, assume he loathes himself and act accordingly.
He had a great job with CBS and lost it because of his progressive addiction.

He does loathe himself. Hoping he's hit rock bottom. Says he has.

We are going for a visit tomorrow. He wants another rehab program... sad thing is, we can't afford it anymore.

Our tax dollars for people like my son, should be spent on rehabilitation and not incarceration.
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Old 04-15-2016, 06:11 PM   #9
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My wife deals with it every day. She has run a non-profit substance abuse clinic for over 20 years. It's tough for her not to take her work home with her.

I can ask her if she has any advice. The first question is location. Every state is different.
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Old 04-15-2016, 06:25 PM   #10
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He had a great job with CBS and lost it because of his progressive addiction.

He does loathe himself. Hoping he's hit rock bottom. Says he has.

We are going for a visit tomorrow. He wants another rehab program... sad thing is, we can't afford it anymore.

Our tax dollars for people like my son, should be spent on rehabilitation and not incarceration.
So, assuming you are in Pennsylvania, you need to google programs available in your state. Here's one site:

http://www.ddap.pa.gov/pages/default.aspx#.VxF3Snr3R2A

According to the wife, it's actually better if he has no money and is broke. YOU are not financially responsible for his care. Start with state resources and go from there. There are likely hot line numbers that can get you started. If you happen to be in Mass, she can provide more specific information.
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Old 04-15-2016, 07:07 PM   #11
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Interesting, aren't you currently in the teaching profession (in an affluent neighborhood) or am I mixing you up with someone else?
Yes , you are correct. But although my students may have the financial access, we are in a relatively quiet area. Our parents are also in general VERY involved with their children.

However, a young alum of ours just died from ODing with heroine. He was from Queens, and had issues even before he came here. He was 28 years old. I didn't know him, but faculty who did say that he was always struggling with his demons.
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Old 04-15-2016, 07:16 PM   #12
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AOT that is heartbreaking and I am sorry. I wish the best for you and your family. Can't imagine.
Have I been touched in my family? No... but my next door neighbor has 3 daughters, all heroin addicts, and 2 years ago I came home from work to watch one of them carried out by the medical examiner, dead from OD. And these are good upstanding parents. It's not a trailer trash problem. Happens across the spectrum. I do think things need to change in the approach to the problem.
Here in MA one police dept stopped charging people and instead got them help. Details:
http://gloucesterpd.com/addicts/
This is one type of different approach.
The OD and death numbers from this are staggering and scary.
I'm not a qualified professional, but I am a parent and I think you did the right thing not bailing him out. I can offer only support.
My boy the cop sees more than I ever will and it's not just the addiction, the heartbreak, the drugs... it's the crime driven by addiction, people will steal and rob to support it. I don't think jailing them for a short time and back on the streets is any kind of solution. But that's what happens a lot.

Good luck sir.
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:49 PM   #13
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Here in MA one police dept stopped charging people and instead got them help. Details:
http://gloucesterpd.com/addicts/
This is one type of different approach.
The OD and death numbers from this are staggering and scary.

Good luck sir.
Thanks. I ran across this link on the internet around 8 months ago. http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...ozI/story.html
I emailed it to our mayor and our police chief with a note. Never got a response.

Bideau thanks. Live just outside San Diego. He was looking into getting a bed at a Salvation Army program here about a week before he got arrested. He had to get detoxed to be considered. Well, he's been forcibly detoxed now. Hoping that will still be an option after the hearing.

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Old 04-16-2016, 07:46 AM   #14
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AOT, if he is an opiate addict, there are some doctors that will prescribe a medication called Suboxone, or its generic equivalent. It is one pill taken sublingual daily. It blocks the desire to use and is very successful. Here in Massachusetts, where the opiate addiction problem is so large, it's unfathomable to me that there are so few doctors that are allowed to prescribe this drug.

It is very expensive, so it's actually better if your son is on state-subsidized healthcare. I do know several people who have addiction issues, and this has been a lifesaver. Doctors that prescribe require a monthly visit, which weeds out the addicts that aren't successful, so they only get a 30-day prescription. The drug has a small amount of Narcan as one of its properties, can't be crushed and injected or snorted, and there is no high from it.

Bid could probably offer up some further info via his wife, but you should probably look into it. You're doing the right thing by not getting him out. As you probably already know, addicts will tell you what you want to hear, mean what they say at the moment, and don't follow through. Unless your son relentlessly pursues a 12-step program on a daily basis and finds a support network through that, he likely won't succeed in staying clean, unfortunately. The recidivism rate is very high for heroin addicts.

Also, perhaps he can find a sober living house or halfway house. They usually only accept people right out of detox.
Best of luck to you and your family.

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Old 04-16-2016, 08:18 AM   #15
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Sorry to hear this AOT. As most have said it can be a very long journey. You may want to look into clinics that have behavioral psychologists on staff. I'm not sure if all do but most should. Also it may help if you join a support group just to help you process, understand, and or just some advice.

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