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Old 06-17-2012, 11:57 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
They same the same thing.

For the record, other countries are ALREADY assisting.....both sides.





Seriously?

how American troops would conduct a variety of operations against Syria, or to assist neighboring countries in the event action was ordered,
Says the same thing as this?
how the US military could aid in ousting the leader with America’s own troops.

First of all, the latter says absolutely nothing about assisting other countries.

For example, suppose that due to the conflict in Syria there are large groups of refugees that cross into Jordan or Turkey. You don't think that one of the options being planned is how the US could provide food, shelter, medical aid, etc. to Turkey and Jordan to help them deal with those refugees?

If the US were to provide such aid to our allies, who the frack do you think would have the lead on doing that?

The military, that's who. They have provided humanitarian assistance after natural disasters plenty of times in the past, because they have the logistics capability to get the material to the area it's needed. They have the medical personnel who can work in field conditions.

Such a plan is most certainly covered by the CNN report, but it isn't by the RT report, because assisting allied nations deal with refugees has nothing to do with "ousting the leader with America’s own troops".

RT said that the US is planning to do only one thing, depose Assad.

CNN didn't say that, they didn't even detail what the possible missions would be.

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As for "what I am saying"...is that that American troops should NOT go into Syria...no matter how much Shiite hits the fan, and therefore there is no reason to draw up such a plan....because there should BE no such plan.


Of course there should be a plan. There should be a plan on file for anything that could ever possibly happen, and even some that are virtually impossible.

Having a plan or not having a plan makes no difference to the probability that we would get involved in Syria. If it has any effect, I would think it would be to make it less likely.

The President would be presented with a plan. That plan would detail the resources necessary to implement the plan and the likely outcome of that action. It would detail estimated casualties (ours and theirs), expected reaction from the rest of the world (EU, Russia, Iran, etc.) It would lay out options and the different outcomes associated with those options.

Basically it would allow the President and his advisers to make a rational decision based on data that was developed in a calm rational fashion.

So what happens if there is no plan and some sort of massive civilian slaughter takes place? There would be plenty of cries by people that something be done. The President would turn to the military and ask if they could do something. They'd have to scramble to determine what their options were and what they could accomplish. Their report would be far less detailed than if we already had a plan, they would be under time pressure to come up with an answer and so more likely to make an error.

Maybe the quick and dirty plan would portray the situation as being more dire than it was and so there would be a decision to do nothing because of the perceived consequences. Maybe it would underestimate the consequences and so the decision would be made to go in.

Personally, I'd rather have a detailed plan already worked out when the President asks "what are my options".

If there is no possible way that the blood and treasure we would expend in an intervention is worth it, then the plan should show that clearly.
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Old 06-17-2012, 03:17 PM   #17
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"how American troops would conduct a variety of operations against Syria"

"how the US military could aid in ousting the leader with America’s own troops. "

Same thing.

In fact, I don't even understand how you can interpret them differently....unless you think that US troops may go into Syria in support of Assad....which I presume is not what you are saying.
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Old 06-17-2012, 04:55 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
"how American troops would conduct a variety of operations against Syria"

"how the US military could aid in ousting the leader with America’s own troops. "

Same thing.

In fact, I don't even understand how you can interpret them differently....unless you think that US troops may go into Syria in support of Assad....which I presume is not what you are saying.
So you're saying the phrase "or to assist neighboring countries" doesn't exit in the CNN report, right?

You're also saying that the only possible action that could be taken against Syria, is the removal of the Assad regime. There is absolutely nothing else that could be done.

For example, this particular part of the CNN report doesn't exist.
U.S. satellites are monitoring the chemical and biological weapons sites around the clock, and so far "there is no reason to believe they are not secure," one of the U.S. officials said.

The U.S. believes the facilities are guarded by some of the most elite Alawite troops loyal to al-Assad. But the official noted that the opposition forces appear to be gaining strength in some areas, and that the United States, Jordan and the allies are concerned that as the amount of al-Assad controlled territory shrinks, some of those critical facilities could be open to attacks, pilfering or efforts by terrorist groups to buy material.

"This is getting a fair amount of attention," another U.S. official told CNN. Also discussed with Jordanian forces was the possible need for U.S. chemical and biological weapons detecting equipment, the official said.

The overall assessment by the U.S. is that in the event some action had to be taken to secure Syrian chemical, biological or weapons facilities, troops from some country would have to enter Syria in a matter of hours.
So it's not conceivable that one of the "variety of missions" would consist of securing Syria's biological and or chemical weapons.

Oh and before you rant about this being another "Iraq", RT says both sides have chemical weapons, so it has to be true.
The armed Syrian opposition has got their hands on chemical weapons, which they acquired from Libya, a media report claims. They allegedly plan to use it against civilians and pin the atrocity on the Bashar al-Assad regime.

*The report by DamPress claims the opposition group in possession of the weapons is being trained in its use inside Turkey. No further detail on the alleged conspiracy is given.

The Libyan stockpile of chemical weapons was a matter of great concern during last year’s civil war in the country. There were fears that they may end up in the hands of the terrorists and used elsewhere in the world. However unlike Libya’s portable surface-to-air arsenal, no reports of the weapons going missing was made public.

Syria has a greater number of chemical weapons than Libya. Military experts say the agents in the Syrian stockpile are also more modern that what Gaddafi had produced for his military. Syria also didn’t join the Chemical Weapons Convention and is not obliged to declare what chemical weapons it possesses.
Or it's not possible for the US military to impose a blockade to prevent any aid getting to the Syrian regime, or to impose a no-fly zone, to prevent Syrian air power from being used against the rebels, or any of a host of other options.

Nope, the only possible action is that we would send ground troops in to fight Assad's forces and arrest or kill Assad when we find him.



Now as I said, I don't think that the situation in Syria presently warrants us getting involved, however there are countless things the US military could do in Syria that doesn't include overthrowing the Assad regime.

The RT report only described the overthrow as what was being planned and the CNN report didn't. If you can't see that, then I can only conclude that your preconceived opinion on these topics is preventing you from comprehending that.
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:40 PM   #19
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Sorry, OPT...

I am not going to continue literacy instructions as you continue to backpedal.

I did not say we ARE invading Syria, as your ******** argument above suggests.

I merely stated we should NOT go into Syria.

..and I have been chasing your shifting arguments ever since.
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:23 AM   #20
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I think the OP's tin-foil hat is a bit too tight.

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Old 06-18-2012, 09:25 AM   #21
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I think the OP's tin-foil hat is a bit too tight.

Of course, because everyone knows that the Nobel Prize for Peace winning president would never ever ever do nothing like send troops to another country to take part in non-peaceful activities.
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Old 06-18-2012, 10:23 AM   #22
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Damn that George Bush. Warmonger Chimp Bastard.
In fairness to all incoming Presidents they have no clue what truly goes on behind the scenes in the REAL WORLD,but after their first CIA briefing the reality smacks them all in the face, and their hair immediately turns two shades of grey...
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Old 06-18-2012, 10:26 AM   #23
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Of course, because everyone knows that the Nobel Prize for Peace winning president would never ever ever do nothing like send troops to another country to take part in non-peaceful activities.
Kinetic actions.
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Old 06-18-2012, 10:38 AM   #24
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In fairness to all incoming Presidents they have no clue what truly goes on behind the scenes in the REAL WORLD,but after their first CIA briefing the reality smacks them all in the face, and their hair immediately turns two shades of grey...
I wish all incoming presidents were granted that kind of grace.
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:16 AM   #25
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I wish all incoming presidents were granted that kind of grace.
They should..
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:22 AM   #26
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Of course, because everyone knows that the Nobel Prize for Peace winning president would never ever ever do nothing like send troops to another country to take part in non-peaceful activities.
Which part is the "tinfoil hat"?

A. The part where the US has drawn up plans to go into Syria.

B. The part where I state we should not go into Syria.

C. Both of the above.

I'd like to know because the above 2 arguments are the only things I have stated.

Please answer A, B, or C.....not some answer addressing a post that I didn't make.
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:27 AM   #27
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Which part is the "tinfoil hat"?

A. The part where the US has drawn up plans to go into Syria.

B. The part where I state we should not go into Syria.

C. Both of the above.

I'd like to know because the above 2 arguments are the only things I have stated.

Please answer A, B, or C.....not some answer addressing a post that I didn't make.

I'm assuming you meant this for the Jills fan
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:55 PM   #28
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Baron, I wholeheartedly agree we shouldn't go into Syria. Id be willing to wager about 90% of the population agrees. Too bad the 10% that do pretty much run the government or get government contracts.

Going into Syria is pretty much a war with Iran by proxy, which is as bad as fighting a war on 2 fronts
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:58 PM   #29
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Baron, I wholeheartedly agree we shouldn't go into Syria. Id be willing to wager about 90% of the population agrees. Too bad the 10% that do pretty much run the government or get government contracts.

Going into Syria is pretty much a war with Iran by proxy, which is as bad as fighting a war on 2 fronts
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Don't forget the Russian Military bases there.

Syria is bad news all round...just let it be.
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Old 06-18-2012, 05:45 PM   #30
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Which part is the "tinfoil hat"?

A. The part where the US has drawn up plans to go into Syria.

B. The part where I state we should not go into Syria.

C. Both of the above.

I'd like to know because the above 2 arguments are the only things I have stated.

Please answer A, B, or C.....not some answer addressing a post that I didn't make.
What about Jordan or Turkey?

Should we draw up plans to provide logistical aid to Turkey or Jordan to deal with a crisis from refugees pouring across their border, should the need arise?

Should we send tents, food, medical supplies, etc. if they need it?

You know the things that were mentioned in the CNN report but not the RT report?
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