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Old 02-14-2006, 10:41 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by player
I guess those who were raised Christians have a huge advantage then Huh?.. Too convenient, IMO.

According to your beliefs, everyone else on the face of the planet must disregard what they were taught since birth.

That just can't be right...and sounds more along the lines of "my religion is the only right one, everyone else is wrong". This line of reasoning has only led to one thing since the beginning of man....hatred and war.
I think whatever you believe is the correct one for you, I never push my beliefs on anyone, choose for yourself if damnation is what you want

I think faith is one of the greatest healing powers in mankind, I see people who have faith keep a great mental approach to healing and it appears to me they do heal better. Many of them believe in a different religous path than I but it doesn't matter, faith in your belief is what give you strength to fight.
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Old 02-14-2006, 10:49 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by dchester
Player, We've been having a pretty good discussion here, and everyone's been quite civil. I'm hoping you're not going to turn this thread into a flame war.

I think it would be much more constructive for you to state what your believes are, rather than attacking someone else's beliefs.
Agree 100%, D. I'm finding this discussion interesting from a philosophical point of view. I'm not interested in attacking someone's belief, I'm just trying to understand it.

Cka has been kind enough (and brave enough) to simply state her belief. She's been very respectful of others and, to me personally, she's been very supportive in other matters. My questions for her have been asked so I can try to understand. If she chooses not to answer further, that's her right and I respect it.

I'd hate to see this have to get moved because it turned hostile.
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Old 02-14-2006, 10:55 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by bideau
Agree 100%, D. I'm finding this discussion interesting from a philosophical point of view. I'm not interested in attacking someone's belief, I'm just trying to understand it.

Cka has been kind enough (and brave enough) to simply state her belief. She's been very respectful of others and, to me personally, she's been very supportive in other matters. My questions for her have been asked so I can try to understand. If she chooses not to answer further, that's her right and I respect it.

I'd hate to see this have to get moved because it turned hostile.
Thanks!

Honestly, I'm not offended by anyone's remarks thus far, and I see no reason for the thread to be moved (at least, not yet).

I, too, am enjoying this discussion, and am simply stating MY beliefs, in addition to everyone else posting theirs.

Religion is a personal thing, and I'm sure everyone thinks their way is the right way. Even those who have no religion believe they are right.
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Old 02-14-2006, 10:56 AM   #109
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Originally posted by bideau
I'd hate to see this have to get moved because it turned hostile.
Ditto on all counts. This thread has thus far been enlightening, let's not mess that up.

Last edited by Annihilus; 02-14-2006 at 11:02 AM..
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:06 AM   #110
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I was raised Catholic. I've since left that church (even before the pedophilia scandal) and have thought out what I believe about religion.

Organized religion often brings out the best and worst in people. Those who grab positions of power in a church or sect make the rules, and then threaten everyone else with retribution from their particular god if they don't toe the party line. Or else they pull a con on the sheep, er, flock.

Case in point: the Catholic church hid and shuffled around pedophiles for years. Why? Not because some in the hierarchy actually cared about the unsuspecting flock, but worried about the Church's image.

Are there sincere people in organized religion? Sure. Are there charlatans out there taking your money and running your lives with religious edicts? Sure.

I think that no matter if you worship a God, Goddess, Buddha, a pantheon of Gods and Goddesses, etc., etc., if you're a decent human being who doesn't hurt others and tries to live a good life, believes in love, then you'll end up in the same place. Just different paths, religious or otherwise.
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:10 AM   #111
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Having said what I've said here already, here's something else to chew on.....

I've gone on record as saying I've been taught, and believe, that the Bible says belief in and acceptance of Jesus as Son of God and personal Saviour is the only way to attain entrance into Heaven.

This also implies, IMO, each person must make an informed decision and willful choice to accept Christ and His teachings.

So.....

What about those who are unable to do so? Those with mental disabilities who are unable to comprehend the deep spiritual complexities, or even the simple teachings?

As most of you here know, my son has autism, is mostly non-verbal, and it is very difficult to assess just how much he understands. He also appears to view the world in a literal sense. Is he now, or will he ever, be able to comprehend faith? Does he have the capacity to understand the teachings, and to either accept or reject? And what if he doesn't?
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:12 AM   #112
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I was born and baptized into the Roman Catholic Church, I had my communion and confirmation. My son was baptized as a Catholic, but we have never pressed that issue on him any further. It would be hard to tell him to go to church or to Catechism when we do not.

I believe in God, Jesus and most of the teachings of the church. What I do not believe in the church as man has made it. How can I believe in anything man made and contradictory as the Catholic church? Here is an organization that if it were a country, it would be the 4th richest in the world. Sell a few paintings and feed a few thousand people.

I guess you could say I am a lazy catholic, but I figured out a long time ago that if I live my life in such a way that I have no regrets, no criminal record, no outstanding warrants, do no physical harm to others, love and respect my family, be kind to others, help the needy, pay my debts, root for the Patriots and give back to my community, who is going to say that I am going to hell? Certainly no one on earth, except for those psycho Colts fans.

I also find it hard to go to a closet once a week to "confess" my sins to someone who maybe diddling little children behind the alter after church services. I think his crimes far outweigh anything I did during the past week.

I leave you with this....The true path to enlightenment does not start with a lantern, but a step in the dark......

Now, enough of this religious bullshit and let's get back to regular programming......
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:15 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally posted by cka203
Having said what I've said here already, here's something else to chew on.....

I've gone on record as saying I've been taught, and believe, that the Bible says belief in and acceptance of Jesus as Son of God and personal Saviour is the only way to attain entrance into Heaven.

This also implies, IMO, each person must make an informed decision and willful choice to accept Christ and His teachings.

So.....

What about those who are unable to do so? Those with mental disabilities who are unable to comprehend the deep spiritual complexities, or even the simple teachings?

As most of you here know, my son has autism, is mostly non-verbal, and it is very difficult to assess just how much he understands. He also appears to view the world in a literal sense. Is he now, or will he ever, be able to comprehend faith? Does he have the capacity to understand the teachings, and to either accept or reject? And what if he doesn't?



If there is a heaven, rest assured, your son will be there someday. IMO
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:29 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by player
If there is a heaven, rest assured, your son will be there someday. IMO
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:32 AM   #115
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Wow, you guys have a 3 hour start on me with the time zones and all.

Hmm,


There are many good people in this world that aren't a part of any religion. Doesn't mean anyone who does is better than anyone else.

I am not a fan of the 700 club people, who hate those who aren't like them. That is the most un-Christian thing you could do. I think these people actually need to read the Bible.

cka, in my Church we are taught that those with disorders who really cannot do what we do, are given a free pass. I think it can be understood as they know too much, just like very small children, so they can't communicate that well.

I really like how everyone is being very cool. Most people get all crazy and offended when someone states beliefs that aren't their own. Nice to see the co-habitation.

I can understand why people don't believe. I mean, I sit back and read the Scriptures and remind my self that this stuff really happened. There are some very far out things that happened. Without Faith, you probably couldn't just take anyone's word for it.

This has been a question, so I'll try to answer it. What happens to those that never get taught, such as different cultures. Everyone gets a second chance. When we all die and go to where we need to go, we'll see the truth, and then if we can accept that, we move on. If not, adyios (in my best John Wayne voice.)

PS I am glad y'all want me to stay
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:49 AM   #116
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PS I am glad y'all want me to stay


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Old 02-14-2006, 12:15 PM   #117
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PS I am glad y'all want me to stay
Nah, get out of here. I had the exclusive rights on Mormon poster until you came along and ruined for me.


just kidding of course. It's cool having a fellow cultist zealout (been called that more than once in my life) around.
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Old 02-14-2006, 12:19 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by bideau
It's truly a question I've never been able to quite understand.

I've always felt that if there is a higher power, that the quality of a person's life and their deeds would be far more important than the specific belief that they followed through their lives. I just cannot fathom the idea of a God sprinkling contradictions and mysteries through out the Universe then expecting us to sort through it all to find the one true answer. Seems kind of sadistic to me.
Ya know, this reminds me of an episode of Futurama. For those who know the show, basically Bender (the robot) got shot out into space. As he was drifting he suddenly had a civilization of tiny beings crop up on his body. They took him as their God, worshipped him and all that. Long story short, he started playing God, trying to help by directly intervening and such, and the civilization ended up destroying itself. As Bender floated on, he ran into an omnipresent nebula that he assumed was God. He started explaining how he kept trying to help but things just got worse. The nebula explained that if you do things right, people never even know you were there.

End the end, Bender got back home, and Fry and Leela had left some Monks trapped in a closet at the big telescope they were using to find him. They started to shrug it off when Bender proclaimed that they had to go rescue them cuz God certainly wasn't going to do it. Then right before the credits you see the Nebula and hear a chuckle. When you do things right, nobody even knows you were there.

Silly TV show and all, but I kinda liked that message.
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Old 02-14-2006, 12:23 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by cka203
Having said what I've said here already, here's something else to chew on.....

I've gone on record as saying I've been taught, and believe, that the Bible says belief in and acceptance of Jesus as Son of God and personal Saviour is the only way to attain entrance into Heaven.

This also implies, IMO, each person must make an informed decision and willful choice to accept Christ and His teachings.

So.....

What about those who are unable to do so? Those with mental disabilities who are unable to comprehend the deep spiritual complexities, or even the simple teachings?

As most of you here know, my son has autism, is mostly non-verbal, and it is very difficult to assess just how much he understands. He also appears to view the world in a literal sense. Is he now, or will he ever, be able to comprehend faith? Does he have the capacity to understand the teachings, and to either accept or reject? And what if he doesn't?
I've always felt, like others mentioned, that those with disabilities would be given a free pass.

Now, I'm thinking maybe they don't need it.

This past Sat, at the end of the Pastor's sermon, he told a story of a couple whose son was born with extreme mental retardation. And this isn't going to be exact, but it's pretty much what the pastor said.

This handicap was bad enough that they put him in a home. They went and saw him every week though. And like you cka, they were concerned about his spiritual side. How could he accept Jesus when he barely understood what was going on. What was going to happen to him after death.

One time, when the kid is 15, they go to see him and they take him for a ride. Up till this point, the kid has never said more than a word at a time, and even that was a rarity.

As they're driving along, the kid, out of nowhere says "Jesus died for us. Jesus saved us." The parents turn around in complete shock, not only because it was the most their son had ever spoken, but obviously because of what he said.

When they got back to the hospital the parents talked to the doctor who informed them that there had been a man in that week giving religious studies and that their son had sat there listening to the man the entire time he was there.

Now, people could say that the kid was just mimicking what he heard. But seeing as how the child had never uttered two words together, the timing and the message, IMO, can't be ignored. And it really got me to thinking...


Even those children or adults who seem to have absolutely no mental capacitity to grasp what's going on in the world around them.... So they can't communicate with the people around them but what's to stop God from communicating with them? I believe God can get through to them.
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Old 02-14-2006, 12:24 PM   #120
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