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Old 10-31-2017, 12:42 PM   #1
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Noah's Ark - Plagiarized from Way, Way, Back

Us humans sure like keeping our myths going:

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Old 10-31-2017, 12:58 PM   #2
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As is Easter, Christmas, The Cross...and I'm sure a lot of other stuff I am not aware of.

..much of which is a by product of converting heathens and unbelievers to a new religion, you sometimes incorporate their pagan stuff into the new religion, to make the transition easier, or sometimes pagans disguise pagan celebrations as new religion ones to avoid persecution, and over time people forget and eventually Christians go to church to celebrate pagan festivals...like Easter, and Christmas, and bow before pagan runes and symbols, like the Cross.

Hey, as long as you drape it with a good story and decorate it with divinity, you've got a timeless myth to carry on.

In 1000 years, they may not be celebrating Easter, or Christmas, or telling the story of Noah any more....but you can bet there will be some kind of religious party on the Spring Equinox, the Winter equinox, and some great myth about a flood and a holy man. In 5000 years, same thing. Christianity will be long gone...but the stories and Easter and Christmas will still be around...I guarantee it.
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Old 10-31-2017, 01:49 PM   #3
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Old 10-31-2017, 02:44 PM   #4
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Solstice.....Equinox...whatever. Hippies.
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:00 PM   #5
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Ever consider why this is? Why these stories keep popping up across cultures?
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:04 PM   #6
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Ever consider why this is? Why these stories keep popping up across cultures?
Obama?
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:30 PM   #7
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Ever consider why this is? Why these stories keep popping up across cultures?
Well, for one, they're pretty good stories. At least if you never saw Star Wars or had a Facebook account.

Secondly, at lot of religious stories explain commonly occurring events, most of which aren't tied to specific geographic areas.
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Old 10-31-2017, 05:16 PM   #8
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...at lot of religious stories explain commonly occurring events, most of which aren't tied to specific geographic areas.
Attributing natural events to supernatural causes isn't an explanation, it's exploitation of the gullible.
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Old 10-31-2017, 05:48 PM   #9
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Attributing natural events to supernatural causes isn't an explanation, it's exploitation of the gullible.
I admit that I phrased myself poorly. At the very least it should have read "are used to explain"
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Old 10-31-2017, 06:04 PM   #10
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Attributing natural events to supernatural causes isn't an explanation, it's exploitation of the gullible.
Like "the animal spirits", bulls and bears?
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 10-31-2017, 06:19 PM   #11
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Like "the animal spirits", bulls and bears?
You're not going all Keynesian on me, are you?
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Old 10-31-2017, 06:27 PM   #12
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First of all, regarding the Star Wars reference, Joseph Campbell has pretty much covered that whole meme with his Monomyth analysis.

The story is repeated, because it resonates with something in humans. Something that transcends cultures.

One can find the same basic story structure in the stories/myths of just about every single culture on the planet.

Does that mean they were "plagiarized"?

I wouldn't say so, since these stories arose in isolation from other cultures more than once.

I'd say it simply reflects a story that humans are drawn to, and so there is a certain Darwinian selection for these stories: If someone comes up with a story in their culture that resonates, it survives, if it is a "trashy novel", it is forgotten.

Regarding the specifics of the Noah story, perhaps there was a historical event that is the basis for all the stories, Gilgamesh included, such as the proposed Black Sea deluge.

Even if one does not believe that hypothesis, the possibility of some sort of major flood in the Persian Gulf/Tigris-Euphrates valley is certainly possible, if not probable.

That landscape is pretty flat and if a major flood occurred when humans were first transitioning to farming from hunter/gatherer communities, it would have seemed to have affected "the whole world".
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Old 10-31-2017, 06:39 PM   #13
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One is reminded of Pratchett's Small Gods.
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TipRoast View Post
Attributing natural events to supernatural causes isn't an explanation, it's exploitation of the gullible.
I'm not a fan of the supernatural/natural dichotomy, it seems fraught with error to me. As far as I can tell, nothing is so "outside" or "beyond" the universe that it ceases being "natural".

For instance, if ghosts were confirmed tomorrow, would that mean we discovered something supernatural? Or would it mean we will now broaden our understanding of the natural world to accommodate the new information? What is the difference?

Theists like to pretend there is a wall separating the two domains, but they are really more like quantum and classical with regard to physics; each has its own set of behaviors but neither is less "natural" than the other. Likewise, supernatural (if it exists) and common-natural would both be contained within the set of natural events.

This is why complaints of having a "naturalistic bias" or being a "philosophical naturalist" are meaningless rubbish disguised as legitimate argument. Like the rest of apologetics.

Sorry for the rant.... back to your scheduled programming
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:39 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Oswlek View Post
I'm not a fan of the supernatural/natural dichotomy, it seems fraught with error to me. As far as I can tell, nothing is so "outside" or "beyond" the universe that it ceases being "natural".

For instance, if ghosts were confirmed tomorrow, would that mean we discovered something supernatural? Or would it mean we will now broaden our understanding of the natural world to accommodate the new information? What is the difference?

Theists like to pretend there is a wall separating the two domains, but they are really more like quantum and classical with regard to physics; each has its own set of behaviors but neither is less "natural" than the other. Likewise, supernatural (if it exists) and common-natural would both be contained within the set of natural events.

This is why complaints of having a "naturalistic bias" or being a "philosophical naturalist" are meaningless rubbish disguised as legitimate argument. Like the rest of apologetics.

Sorry for the rant.... back to your scheduled programming
Quote:
Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
First of all, regarding the Star Wars reference, Joseph Campbell has pretty much covered that whole meme with his Monomyth analysis.

The story is repeated, because it resonates with something in humans. Something that transcends cultures.

One can find the same basic story structure in the stories/myths of just about every single culture on the planet.

Does that mean they were "plagiarized"?

I wouldn't say so, since these stories arose in isolation from other cultures more than once.

I'd say it simply reflects a story that humans are drawn to, and so there is a certain Darwinian selection for these stories: If someone comes up with a story in their culture that resonates, it survives, if it is a "trashy novel", it is forgotten.

Regarding the specifics of the Noah story, perhaps there was a historical event that is the basis for all the stories, Gilgamesh included, such as the proposed Black Sea deluge.

Even if one does not believe that hypothesis, the possibility of some sort of major flood in the Persian Gulf/Tigris-Euphrates valley is certainly possible, if not probable.

That landscape is pretty flat and if a major flood occurred when humans were first transitioning to farming from hunter/gatherer communities, it would have seemed to have affected "the whole world".


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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
Peace, Prosperity, Liberty, Human Rights, Natural Rights, Civil Rights, Property Rights, Sound Money, Free Markets, Sovereignty, the Constitution, the Republic.

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