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Old 03-24-2020, 06:57 AM   #526
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This focus on price gouging is the perfect example of making a catastrophically stupid mistake by way of socialism.

What a completely idiotic thing to do.

First of all, it is a waste of government time and resources. Secondly, it is criminalizing something that is not criminal, and third of all, it guarantees that shortages will remain and be extended indefinitely.

It make the shortages worse, not better.

This is the universal error made by all big government socialists in every crisis. When I say "socialists", I include Republicans, who are just "socialism lite".

Look, if you have facemasks that normally sell for $1, and people are willing to pay $10 for them, you don't fucking go after the person selling them for $10!! You let them make $10 a mask, and everyone everywhere who has masks to sell will put them on the market, or ship them from wherever they are to wherever they are needed, and make them as fast as they can, and it will be done at lightning speed to take advantage of the demand!

BUT...if you shut down and prosecute people selling masks for $10, there is absolutely no incentive for people who have them to make them available, especially if making them available incurs costs like transportation that actually reduces profits.

Where shortages are a problem, price gouging is the SOLUTION! It signals the market to "MAKE THESE AVAILABLE NOW AND YOU WILL MAKE MONEY!"

Fundamental economics. Price signals are how the market communicates and coordinates supply vs demand.

By suppressing the price forcibly, you are suppressing the supply exactly when you need it the most.

This is a classic big government mistake that makes problems worse, not better.
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Old 03-24-2020, 07:15 AM   #527
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This focus on price gouging is the perfect example of making a catastrophically stupid mistake by way of socialism.

What a completely idiotic thing to do.

First of all, it is a waste of government time and resources. Secondly, it is criminalizing something that is not criminal, and third of all, it guarantees that shortages will remain and be extended indefinitely.

It make the shortages worse, not better.

This is the universal error made by all big government socialists in every crisis. When I say "socialists", I include Republicans, who are just "socialism lite".

Look, if you have facemasks that normally sell for $1, and people are willing to pay $10 for them, you don't fucking go after the person selling them for $10!! You let them make $10 a mask, and everyone everywhere who has masks to sell will put them on the market, or ship them from wherever they are to wherever they are needed, and make them as fast as they can, and it will be done at lightning speed to take advantage of the demand!

BUT...if you shut down and prosecute people selling masks for $10, there is absolutely no incentive for people who have them to make them available, especially if making them available incurs costs like transportation that actually reduces profits.

Where shortages are a problem, price gouging is the SOLUTION! It signals the market to "MAKE THESE AVAILABLE NOW AND YOU WILL MAKE MONEY!"

Fundamental economics. Price signals are how the market communicates and coordinates supply vs demand.

By suppressing the price forcibly, you are suppressing the supply exactly when you need it the most.

This is a classic big government mistake that makes problems worse, not better.
Disagree.

I understand the concept youíre putting forward. And agree in principle. That will work with normal items. A box of Cheerios.

Essential medical supplies to keep society from collapsing? Not so much. Price gouging that jeopardizes the well being of everyone should always be illegal.
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Old 03-24-2020, 07:20 AM   #528
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Essential medical supplies to keep society from collapsing? Not so much. Price gouging that jeopardizes the well being of everyone should always be illegal.
That might make you feel better, but that makes the problem long term rather than short term....but at least you'll feel better, right?
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Old 03-24-2020, 07:26 AM   #529
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That might make you feel better, but that makes the problem long term rather than short term....but at least you'll feel better, right?
Feeling better isnít the point.

Without the masks itís only a matter of hrs that almost all our medical personnel contract the illness. Then what? Chaos. Anarchy. Mass death.

Make all you want on that new Ford Focus your selling. That Spaulding basketball.

Essential medical supplies? No. Especially those being funded by emergency relief funding packages. I canít think of a bigger dick move.
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Old 03-24-2020, 07:39 AM   #530
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Feeling better isnít the point.

Without the masks itís only a matter of hrs that almost all our medical personnel contract the illness. Then what? Chaos. Anarchy. Mass death.
That's right.

The problem is, once you institute price controls, you make shortages permanent.

Allow price gouging, and supply chains will rush to provide the product and exploit the promise of increased profit margin. The companies and individuals that can bring the most to market the fastest will make the most money, while those that are slower will lose out.

Another analogy...if the supermarket stocks the shelves with TP for $1 a roll, whoever is the first to get there will buy them all at $1. Everyone who is late will find empty shelves.

Charge $10 per roll of toilet paper, and only those who really need it will buy it, and it will sit there on the shelf with only those who really need it paying that price for it....but if it is worth $10 to them, they will at least have some to buy!

Meanwhile, producers will work overtime to provide as much toilet paper as possible to make the most money in the shortest time.

But...institute price controls, and all you will have is a TP lottery...lucky people will buy as much as they can at a $1, and those who are most desperate will find only empty shelves.

Free markets solve problems, government, including DoJ price controls, create problems and make them worse.

That, in a nutshell, is why socialism fails economically, every time. Everybody feels good about how fair everything is and how everything is affordable for everyone...you just have to wait in line and ration out scarce supplies of it because there is no incentive to be productive and meet demand.

That's all the cries about "price gouging" is...a desperate cry for more socialist economics.
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Old 03-24-2020, 08:07 AM   #531
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That's right.

The problem is, once you institute price controls, you make shortages permanent.

Allow price gouging, and supply chains will rush to provide the product and exploit the promise of increased profit margin. The companies and individuals that can bring the most to market the fastest will make the most money, while those that are slower will lose out.

Another analogy...if the supermarket stocks the shelves with TP for $1 a roll, whoever is the first to get there will buy them all at $1. Everyone who is late will find empty shelves.

Charge $10 per roll of toilet paper, and only those who really need it will buy it, and it will sit there on the shelf with only those who really need it paying that price for it....but if it is worth $10 to them, they will at least have some to buy!

Meanwhile, producers will work overtime to provide as much toilet paper as possible to make the most money in the shortest time.

But...institute price controls, and all you will have is a TP lottery...lucky people will buy as much as they can at a $1, and those who are most desperate will find only empty shelves.

Free markets solve problems, government, including DoJ price controls, create problems and make them worse.

That, in a nutshell, is why socialism fails economically, every time. Everybody feels good about how fair everything is and how everything is affordable for everyone...you just have to wait in line and ration out scarce supplies of it because there is no incentive to be productive and meet demand.

That's all the cries about "price gouging" is...a desperate cry for more socialist economics.
Again, youíre citing non-essentials. While toilet paper is an absolute need, you can use tissue, napkins, paper towels. Whatever works.

Say Iím some guy in medical production. Iíve somehow managed to produce 85% of the worlds malaria treatment chloroquine. Iíve had a very good run for quite some time mass producing the most effective drug battling malaria. The cost is $12 per treatment. I have no trouble producing the worlds need on a regular 40 hr production week and everyone is satisfied with the cost.

Suddenly, my product is also found to serve as the backbone of this new pandemic seizing the country. Iíve been very comfortable, but now? Mercy! I can go 3 shifts, triple production. And oh yeah, that $12? Howís $800 sound? No? $900? Ok, you twisted my arm. Iíll settle at $1450.

Thatís the solution? Market adjustment?
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Old 03-24-2020, 08:13 AM   #532
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Again, youíre citing non-essentials. While toilet paper is an absolute need, you can use tissue, napkins, paper towels. Whatever works.

Say Iím some guy in medical production. Iíve somehow managed to produce 85% of the worlds malaria treatment chloroquine. Iíve had a very good run for quite some time mass producing the most effective drug battling malaria. The cost is $12 per treatment. I have no trouble producing the worlds need on a regular 40 hr production week and everyone is satisfied with the cost.

Suddenly, my product is also found to serve as the backbone of this new pandemic seizing the country. Iíve been very comfortable, but now? Mercy! I can go 3 shifts, triple production. And oh yeah, that $12? Howís $800 sound? No? $900? Ok, you twisted my arm. Iíll settle at $1450.

Thatís the solution? Market adjustment?
Yes, because suddenly you have created opportunity for a thousand competitors that weren't there before.

You think the rest of the pharmaceutical producing world is just going to sit on their hands and watch you make all that money? NO! They're going to call in their workers, tell them everyone gets overtime this week, and start cranking out Chloroquine as fast as they can, by the convoy, to take advantage of the money just waiting to be made.

(Barring IP laws, of course, one of the other great socialist scourges of the world.)

On the other hand, if you institute price controls, everyone else will just say "Hey, I've got nothing to do with that, we're just going to keep making our suntan lotion, business as usual."
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Old 03-24-2020, 08:22 AM   #533
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Elon Musk delivers hundreds of ventilators bought in China to US

https://thehill.com/policy/technolog...in-china-to-us

I love Elon Musk.

Yes, I know he's missing a few cards from his deck, but he's brilliant, and he;s a dreamer, and he does things BIG.

I view him as the 21st century Henry Ford.
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Old 03-24-2020, 08:24 AM   #534
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Yes, because suddenly you have created opportunity for a thousand competitors that weren't there before.

You think the rest of the pharmaceutical producing world is just going to sit on their hands and watch you make all that money? NO! They're going to call in their workers, tell them everyone gets overtime this week, and start cranking out Chloroquine as fast as they can, by the convoy, to take advantage of the money just waiting to be made.

(Barring IP laws, of course, one of the other great socialist scourges of the world.)

On the other hand, if you institute price controls, everyone else will just say "Hey, I've got nothing to do with that, we're just going to keep making our suntan lotion, business as usual."
I donít think you just convert a plant to start producing something entirely different with a simple snap of the fingers.

And time is of the essence as well.

Plus sales.
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Old 03-24-2020, 08:29 AM   #535
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I donít think you just convert a plant to start producing something entirely different with a simple snap of the fingers.
That's how we won WW2.

It's just a cost-benefit analysis. "How much will it cost to retool and retrain my employees vs how much will I make if I do it, vs how much will I make if I don't do it."

Besides, you're already seeing it in action, companies all over America changing their production to meet the Covid crisis....part of it is patriotism, but they wouldn't do it unless it was profitable.
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Old 03-24-2020, 08:40 AM   #536
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List: 74 actions taken by Trump to fight virus and bolster economy

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/w...olster-economy
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Old 03-24-2020, 09:09 AM   #537
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That's how we won WW2.

It's just a cost-benefit analysis. "How much will it cost to retool and retrain my employees vs how much will I make if I do it, vs how much will I make if I don't do it."

Besides, you're already seeing it in action, companies all over America changing their production to meet the Covid crisis....part of it is patriotism, but they wouldn't do it unless it was profitable.
True.

I just see it as so abhorrently wrong to know a federal relief package is announced specifically to purchase among many things the thing I produce and for me to raise that product cost 1000% with no justification other than personal greed.

I mean, weíre talking lives. Not whether a kid has that Tickle Me Elmo under the tree.
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Old 03-24-2020, 09:30 AM   #538
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List: 74 actions taken by Trump to fight virus and bolster economy

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/w...olster-economy
LOL.

Trump gets to take credit for all of those, eh? Even the ones done by the DOE?

A great deal of that list are things done within different government organizations; Trump didn't do many of those . And signing legislation? Pretty sure that means that others wrote it.

Trump has done some things right, certainly. But all of those? Talk about giving undue credit.
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Old 03-24-2020, 09:45 AM   #539
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TDS.

You’re all continually harping leadership. And pointing out things downstream that may not have gone perfect. And perfectly content to lay blame at his feet. But the good? No credit.

TDS is very real. You have one of the worst case afflictions. Especially for a supposed rightie.

Hopefully you don’t give it to Mitt & Hip on that island.

KAG!
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Old 03-24-2020, 09:58 AM   #540
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True.

I just see it as so abhorrently wrong to know a federal relief package is announced specifically to purchase among many things the thing I produce and for me to raise that product cost 1000% with no justification other than personal greed.

I mean, weíre talking lives. Not whether a kid has that Tickle Me Elmo under the tree.
I totally get it.

Just remember that greed is the fuel for the engine that drives productivity. When there is more profit to be had, those engines run hotter and faster.
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Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhamean View Post
Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
Peace, Prosperity, Liberty, Human Rights, Natural Rights, Civil Rights, Property Rights, Sound Money, Free Markets, Sovereignty, the Constitution, the Republic.

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