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Old 01-07-2008, 02:13 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dolphin22 on 01-07-2008 at 01:50 PM
Adam Venetiei...without him not only you don't win 3 Superbowls with his last minute game winning kicks,the Patriots don't even get to the big games without him...
Yeah.... cause no other kicker could have made those kicks right?

I'll give you the snowbowl one, but that leaves a lot more average run of the mill kicks Gostkowski could probably make.

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Same as the '72 Dolphins. Now, it has become a tired and silly ritual through the years watching these graying and balding men gather each year to pop champagne corks whenever the last unbeaten team falls, and that sad clinging to the past diminishes what they did, and it if there is one thing even Pats-haters can agree on, it's this: a 19-0 Pats team makes that annual ritual disappear, mercifully, forever.

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Old 01-07-2008, 02:26 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dolphin22 on 01-07-2008 at 01:54 PM
I guess if you want to give a MVP award for throwing 80 yards with yds 60 after the catch...yea!!! sure...he s an MVP...

He throws it short, you don't like it.

He throws it long you don't like it.

What a surprise!

Can you please tell us all what, in your opinion, is the correct length of pass Brady should be throwing?


Bottom line is Brady can make all the throws and makes the right read and the right throw the vast majority of plays, even under the severest pressure in the playoffs. He's led more 4th quarter comeback drives than Ricky Williams has smoked spliffs (ok, maybe not quite).

And as with all true greats, he's so far been at his best in the big games.

66% passes completed in the SBs, 235 average passing yards, 6TDs and only one pick (tut tut).

Oh, and he's also averaged 3.5 yards per carry rushing in the big game!
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Old 01-07-2008, 03:54 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dolphin22 on 01-07-2008 at 01:50 PM
Marino is alltime 2nd by 1 game to Elway for all time combacks with a team with no defense or Running game...and unlike Brady he used his talent to do it...not the referees

Again you & the NFL may need to promote superbowl rings and attach them to single players as if they actually won them...but its a team accomplishment...ask Joe Montanna himself...he'll tell you
Oh....so the QB doesn't make much difference to whether a team wins or loses?

If a team is good enuff to win a championship, it doesn't matter who the QB is.....

I get it.

So, the Chicago Bears would have lost whether it was Rex Grossman or Dan Marino at the helm, and the Colts would have won whether they had Peyton Manning or Rex Grossman....

This is one of your most brilliant points!!!! A quarterback is measured only by how many yards he passes for...winning and losing is irrelevant, because that is a "team accomplishment".

And you actually really put your foot in it when you claimed Marino is second all time in comebacks...and in the same breath credit Vinatieri with all the Patriots comebacks.....

....one of Marino's classic trademarks was getting the team in field goal range at the end of the game....of all those comebacks you mention, how many were kicks?
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:03 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Therick67* on 01-07-2008 at 01:56 PM
Is this an example of 'you brain working'?

If it is you might wan't to take a bath with an electrical appliance you brain dead idiot
OOOH!!! Nice one Therick !!!... WOOHOO!!!
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:27 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Baron Samedi on 01-07-2008 at 03:54 PM
1] Oh....so the QB doesn't make much difference to whether a team wins or loses?

2] If a team is good enuff to win a championship, it doesn't matter who the QB is.....I get it.

3] So, the Chicago Bears would have lost whether it was Rex Grossman or Dan Marino at the helm, and the Colts would have won whether they had Peyton Manning or Rex Grossman....

4] This is one of your most brilliant points!!!! A quarterback is measured only by how many yards he passes for...winning and losing is irrelevant, because that is a "team accomplishment".

5] And you actually really put your foot in it when you claimed Marino is second all time in comebacks...and in the same breath credit Vinatieri with all the Patriots comebacks.....

6] one of Marino's classic trademarks was getting the team in field goal range at the end of the game....of all those comebacks you mention, how many were kicks?
1] A great Kicker, a great RB a great defensive front 7 makes just as much as a differance as a QB to win a game. Thats a Fact !

2] You never heard of Trent Dilfer? Get out more !!!!

3] Any game if regular season, post season or championship are all Team accomplishments..The media & the sport overhypes them for the sale & label individual players is just wrong...and you know it...its a great team accomplishment & 53 men on that roster are responsable for the outcome espeially the coaches.

4] Spin away so you can feel like you actually are making a point...I never said that ...your being a "Therick"...smarten up!!

5] without Adam Veniteiri "0" SuperBowl rings...it looked to me like Brady couldn't & didn't get the ball in the End Zone to win...he only got in FG range to win, what if they need 4 pts ?\

6] I think 60,000 yds & 420 TD passes and about 30 other NFL History making QB records pretty much credits Marino...not his Kicker...

Tom Brady is not Dan Marino, or Manning... his 1st 6 whole season Brady didn't even have 1 single QB passing record...how many time do i have to say it before it sinks into any of your thick heads...

Brady averaged 8th in QB Rating as I posted directly from the NFL, 2 seasons he was ranked 9th & one season 10th even...1 6th and 1 season 7th and this year 1st....

Of course it doesn't mean anything because he doesn't wear a Patriot uniform but Manning ranked 1st in QB rating the last 3 consecutuive years from 2003-2006...unless its Brady it really doesn't count...can't you idiots see what your trying to say..
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:32 PM   #36
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Tom Brady is now the nfl record holder for most TD's in a season...Nuff said

and by the way D22,That record breaker randy moss is working out just fine for us

Must suck been a one man crusader against the perfect patriots
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:43 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by P4E* on 01-07-2008 at 06:32 PM
Tom Brady is now the nfl record holder for most TD's in a season...Nuff said

and by the way D22,That record breaker randy moss is working out just fine for us

Must suck been a one man crusader against the perfect patriots
The Most TDs in a season is a far cry from the best QB in the league...and hysterical if even considered of All Time...

SuperBowl rings are a great team accomplishment but don't make you the best QB in the league even that season..never mind of All Time

If 8 other good active top 10 QB's next year have an easy schedule & division playing the worst 7 -9 defenses & try and beat Brady's 50 TD record it will be easy...anyone can break a record if you try...
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Old 01-07-2008, 09:16 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dolphin22 on 01-07-2008 at 07:43 PM
anyone can break a record if you try...
This must be true because you have officially broken the broken record record. Don't you ever get tired of saying the same redundant, nonsensical stuff?
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Old 01-07-2008, 09:25 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dolphin22 on 01-07-2008 at 08:43 PM
The Most TDs in a season is a far cry from the best QB in the league
Perhaps you're right. Maybe the MVP of the league is needed to say who's the best.

Now in your nitwitted pathetic mind you'll never admit this but if say Manning was voted MVP over Brady this year you'd have 10 threads on here attempting to diss us about it.

Do you see how pathetic you are? I know what you'd do before you even do it. Seriously, if you think you're even remotely intelligent you're not. I have a harder time predicting the actions of toddlers. :p
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Same as the '72 Dolphins. Now, it has become a tired and silly ritual through the years watching these graying and balding men gather each year to pop champagne corks whenever the last unbeaten team falls, and that sad clinging to the past diminishes what they did, and it if there is one thing even Pats-haters can agree on, it's this: a 19-0 Pats team makes that annual ritual disappear, mercifully, forever.

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Old 01-07-2008, 11:43 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dolphin22 on 01-07-2008 at 06:27 PM
1] A great Kicker, a great RB a great defensive front 7 makes just as much as a differance as a QB to win a game. Thats a Fact !

2] You never heard of Trent Dilfer? Get out more !!!!

3] Any game if regular season, post season or championship are all Team accomplishments..The media & the sport overhypes them for the sale & label individual players is just wrong...and you know it...its a great team accomplishment & 53 men on that roster are responsable for the outcome espeially the coaches.

4] Spin away so you can feel like you actually are making a point...I never said that ...your being a "Therick"...smarten up!!

5] without Adam Veniteiri "0" SuperBowl rings...it looked to me like Brady couldn't & didn't get the ball in the End Zone to win...he only got in FG range to win, what if they need 4 pts ?\

6] I think 60,000 yds & 420 TD passes and about 30 other NFL History making QB records pretty much credits Marino...not his Kicker...

Tom Brady is not Dan Marino, or Manning... his 1st 6 whole season Brady didn't even have 1 single QB passing record...how many time do i have to say it before it sinks into any of your thick heads...

Brady averaged 8th in QB Rating as I posted directly from the NFL, 2 seasons he was ranked 9th & one season 10th even...1 6th and 1 season 7th and this year 1st....

Of course it doesn't mean anything because he doesn't wear a Patriot uniform but Manning ranked 1st in QB rating the last 3 consecutuive years from 2003-2006...unless its Brady it really doesn't count...can't you idiots see what your trying to say..
1. Yeah, but a great QB makes a good team better. You mean to tell me that in 2001, the Patriots were the most talented team in the league? Of course not. Now THAT was an all tiem great 4th quarter drive.

2. Baltimore had the best defense of all time. Nice cherry you picked there, D. But, in response to your question...if Trent Dilfer had 3 rings....he's a great QB. Maybe not the "greatest"....but certainly great. He doesn't, he isn't.

3. Except for Tom Brady...that's all Randy Moss. You made that clear.

4. No, but you keep throwing career passing yards out there as a stat that matters....and you discount Brady's winning record in the regular season, playoffs, and Super Bowls.....ergo.....passing yards are more important than winning for determining greatness.

5. So, when a team is down by 1 or 2 points, the QB should not try to get in field goal range, but all the way to the end zone.
There is a reason why coaches call running plays when they are in field goal range.....figure it out.

6. What's his career yards passing and TD's got to do with this?....I want to know how many 4th quarter drives for a field goal he had in his comebacks. What percentage of winning field goals would you say is "acceptable" for a great QB? Because if he's not scoring TD's, he's not great.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
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Old 01-08-2008, 12:22 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by pookie* on 01-07-2008 at 09:16 PM
Don't you ever get tired of saying the same redundant, nonsensical stuff?
I ask you all the same exact samequestion...as all as Im doing is answering your 1,000'nds of same redundant, nonsensical stuff
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Old 01-08-2008, 12:56 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Baron Samedi on 01-07-2008 at 11:43 PM
1. Yeah, but a great QB makes a good team better.

2. Nice cherry you picked there, D. But,

3] passing yards are more important than winning for determining greatness.

4] So, when a team is down by 1 or 2 points, the QB should not try to get in field goal range, but all the way to the end zone.

5] Because if he's not scoring TD's, he's not great.
1] We agree...but its a team game...even Micheal Jorden still needed 4 other guys out there to win...as Brady needs 53...

2] There is no But !!! Im telling you a Superbowl doesn't make you a great QB...did you really think Trent Dilfer was the only mediocre QB in a SB ?

In 39 Superbowls from 1967-2006 I'll list 19 QB's in Superbowls that will never be in the HOF...count them and the reason Dallas-Pitts-SF-Miami had multiple Rings..they had great balanced dominant teams not great QB's... Brady of course is a good QB & responsable for alot of your success, but not the reason you have 3 rings...

http://football.about.com/cs/superbo...arterbacks.htm

3] Please don't insult my intelligence..thats when the conversation goes south & Im sick of "Therick" talk...

4] Again..an insult...my point is you all & the NFL hyped media for glorified sensationalized stories want to give Brady all the credit for a Dynasty & yet funny enough he has not a single Passing record his first 6 seasons...

QB's like Marino & Montanna & Kelly & Elways etc..known for their passing ability & talent you knew could get you 7 when you need it & under the worst pressure...and you know as well as I do...Tom Brady's reputation was a "Dink & Dunker" and had horrible accuracy throwing downfield...

What Marino & Elway & Montanna were famous for from their rookie seasons & 17 years later was their great passing ability both short 7 long spreading defenses...that was not Tom Brady's strong point for the first 4-5 seasons...the last 2-3 season he has strongly improved his passing game...& you know Im right...and as you all want to use the talent level of WR's for that is simply bullshit...even now with Randy Moss wide open downfield he has thrown some extremely uncatchable balls that Moss had to fight for...but he has improved greatly & is on his way...finally...

5] I always thought Tom Brady did a great job coming off the bench right from his 3rd or 4th game...he showed me he was a smart QB...and he was also coached well & now he is as solid as they come...like Warner, Manning, Palmer etc...
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:25 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dolphin22 on 01-08-2008 at 12:56 AM
..the last 2-3 season he has strongly improved his passing game...& you know Im right...and as you all want to use the talent level of WR's for that is simply bullshit...even now with Randy Moss wide open downfield he has thrown some extremely uncatchable balls that Moss had to fight for...but he has improved greatly & is on his way...finally...

5] I always thought Tom Brady did a great job coming off the bench right from his 3rd or 4th game...he showed me he was a smart QB...and he was also coached well & now he is as solid as they come...like Warner, Manning, Palmer etc...
OMG!! Tis is a great post. I never thought I would see you pay Brady any kind of compliment.
Yes, Brady's passing has improved since his first 2 to 3 years. Partly because his receiving corps has improved. The better the receiver, the larger the "window" or margin of error you have on deep passes.
Joe Montana was NEVER know for his deep passing...in fact just the opposite, he had a weak arm.....but I understand your point.
I sometimes question your intelligence because you throw out things like how Brady only leads the team to winning field goals...and imply that he can't get them in the end zone if needed. That's just stupid.
And you imply that for some reason, Brady's TD's are mostly from short yardage, and that somehow makes him a lesser QB. I would point out that "big play" TD's are as much or more a product of the receiver's talent....but short yardage passes for TD's are a difficult task, given the limited field to protect and the added pressure on the pocket. This is why most teams try to run it in there. To have a lot of short passes for TD's is actually as legitimate or even moreso than long TD passes.

Still, with all that, it warms my heart to see D22 post some nice things about Brady!
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:55 AM   #44
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Hey D22, here's an interesting poll for you......funny......I don't see Marino on this poll......must be another Kraft conspiracy...he owns AOL, too, apparently.....

http://sports.aol.com/nfl

And here is a related article...fascinating....

http://sports.aol.com/voices/armstro...04143809990001

...interesting excerpts from the article....you could learn something here, D22.....

"Forget the stats. You canít always trust numbers in the NFL. If you could, Vinny Testaverde and Dave Krieg would be considered two of the greatest quarterbacks ever."

"This isnít Major League Baseball, where the best player always has the best numbers, but doesnít always win. (Good morning, A-Rod.) In the NFL, itís just the opposite: The best player usually doesnít have the best stats, but almost always wins.

Thatís why, in the end, it canít be about numbers. Itís more about a feeling. In the form of a question, it would read something like this: If your season, your life or your bank account depended on winning a game, which quarterback would you want taking the snaps?

With one Super Bowl victory, Manning canít be in that discussion. Frankly, Montana always has been the choice here, but now Iím not so sure. And thatís with Brady standing on the cusp of his fourth Super Bowl, which would match Joe Coolís jewelry collection."

Last edited by Baron Samedi; 01-08-2008 at 09:12 AM..
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:17 AM   #45
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Baron I have posted many over 1.5 years positive good things about Brady...& mostly honest...hes a top 10 QB...end of story...

my downing Brady isn't on him, its about him not being as good as the great ones...the way you fans & the NFL want to crown him as...hes not even the best QB this year in my book...tied with Favre, Manning , Romo and even Big Ben are having QB seasons as good as Brady..

No matter what you all want to think or percieve Brady as,... just be honest about it...its not about stats but all the sudden they mean everything now because he finally has them ???

Manning the last 3 season has won playoff games, won his division & by the way is 10 times tougher division than the AFC East, has won a SuperBowl and also lead the NFL in QB rating the last 3 seasons...

So now you tell me what exactly makes Brady better than him ?...3 Rings is not the answer... the answer is "NOTHING".

Don't you find it strange that with what I just told you & 3+ years of that great consistancy on top of the game in every single aspect and hes the defending champ, but Peyton Manning still doesn't recieve not a 1/16th the positive press & media hype & preferential treatment Brady does...

And Tom Brady his last 2 seasons lost 11 of 16 competitive games & in 3 of his last 4 palyoff games he had 4 TDs - 7 UNT's and had a horrible under 50% rating & lost badly...

Now how you all can't see this ball washing & creating a Star in this big business of the NFL run by Brady's owner...than youi my friends are blind & lieing to yourselves
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