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Old 06-19-2012, 07:28 AM   #31
Baron Samedi
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Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
What about Jordan or Turkey?

Should we draw up plans to provide logistical aid to Turkey or Jordan to deal with a crisis from refugees pouring across their border, should the need arise?

Should we send tents, food, medical supplies, etc. if they need it?

You know the things that were mentioned in the CNN report but not the RT report?
I am only concerned about the parts that I object most to, obviously.

To answer your oblique question, the answer is "No, I wouldn't give them anything."

Several reasons. I would want the aid to come by way of private donation rather than an official state function, drawn from taxpayers.

Also, given that the choice is fundamentally between aiding al Qaeda Muslim fundamentalists in the rebel movement, or aiding a dictator in the form of the Assad regime.....

I think I would just sit this one out, entirely and let the chips fall where they may.

I am enjoying how much you are twisting to avoid acknowledging that it says what it says....just like you did with NDAA 2012.

Do you still maintain that the report DOES NOT say anything about American troops in Syria? Just curious.

For the record, it may be of interest to people here, one way or another, that arms are being shipped into the Syrian rebels from Saudi Arabia and Qatar, and the US is allowing them in.
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:03 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
I am only concerned about the parts that I object most to, obviously.

To answer your oblique question, the answer is "No, I wouldn't give them anything."

Several reasons. I would want the aid to come by way of private donation rather than an official state function, drawn from taxpayers.

Also, given that the choice is fundamentally between aiding al Qaeda Muslim fundamentalists in the rebel movement, or aiding a dictator in the form of the Assad regime.....

I think I would just sit this one out, entirely and let the chips fall where they may.
How is assisting Turkey and Jordan with refugees within their own borders is "fundamentally" aiding al Qaeda or Assad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
I am enjoying how much you are twisting to avoid acknowledging that it says what it says....just like you did with NDAA 2012.

Do you still maintain that the report DOES NOT say anything about American troops in Syria? Just curious.
Which report? The RT one or the one from CNN that you say is the basis for the RT report?

Yes I agree that the RT report says only that, but the CNN report lists a "variety of operations". That may include operations directly against Assad, or it may not. The example I cited regarding Syria's chemical weapons would most certainly involve operations within Syria, but they would not inherently support the rebels or oppose Assad.

It also explicitly states that some of the plans are to assist Turkey and Jordan within their own borders.

Your position, and the RT article, seems to be that the only possible set of actions is for the US military to intervene in the conflict and overthrow the Assad regime.

The simple fact of the matter is that those are not the only possible actions that can be taken in the region. The CNN article differed from the RT one by pointing out these other options exist.

The fact that you are apparently incapable of understanding the difference says more about your preconceived notions on this issue than what is written.



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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
For the record, it may be of interest to people here, one way or another, that arms are being shipped into the Syrian rebels from Saudi Arabia and Qatar, and the US is allowing them in.
The US is "allowing them in"?

I thought you wanted us to "sit this one out"? How are we to prevent these arm shipments without getting involved?
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:44 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
1. How is assisting Turkey and Jordan with refugees within their own borders is "fundamentally" aiding al Qaeda or Assad?



Which report? The RT one or the one from CNN that you say is the basis for the RT report?

2.Yes I agree that the RT report says only that, but the CNN report lists a "variety of operations". That may include operations directly against Assad, or it may not. The example I cited regarding Syria's chemical weapons would most certainly involve operations within Syria, but they would not inherently support the rebels or oppose Assad.

3.It also explicitly states that some of the plans are to assist Turkey and Jordan within their own borders.

4.Your position, and the RT article, seems to be that the only possible set of actions is for the US military to intervene in the conflict and overthrow the Assad regime.

5.The simple fact of the matter is that those are not the only possible actions that can be taken in the region. The CNN article differed from the RT one by pointing out these other options exist.

The fact that you are apparently incapable of understanding the difference says more about your preconceived notions on this issue than what is written.





6.The US is "allowing them in"?

I thought you wanted us to "sit this one out"? How are we to prevent these arm shipments without getting involved?
1. That is not what I said...one again you're pulling the 'ol Steve-O mechanism.

Regardless, since Turkey is the base of operations for the rebels, then it is, in fact, aiding the rebels.

Even if it is just food and shelter.

2. The CNN report states that there are plans for American troops going into Syria.
You can try to deny it all you want....but pointing to everything ELSE it says is entirely a weak and irrelevant attempt at misdirection.
If the report said we were sending Ben & Jerry's ice cream....do I have to object to sending ice cream just to object to sending American troops?
Of course not.
I don't give a flying fvck about ice cream or blankets.
Sending troops I care about.
Can we at least acknowledge that BOTH reports include sending American troops, and discuss that?
You are quite clearly in favor, I am not.
"Yeah, but there's lots of other stuff we may do, also, or instead of" doesn't make sending troops any less of a bad idea.


3. Right, the operating base of the Free Syrian Army.

Pretty sure if someone were supplying Mexicans with American ID's and ultralights, most here would consider that "aiding illegal immigration in the US."


4. My position, repeated here several times now, is that I object to any plan to send Americans into Syria.
Your misrepresentation of my position demands that I continually repeat it.

5.The simple fact of the matter is that those are not the only possible actions that can be taken in the region.

Which makes sending American troops into Syria a good idea in what way? I am just not following your logic, here, and I doubt anyone else is, either.

6. We are actively engaged in this conflict. We could make efforts to stop arms shipments to the rebels. We do not. Therefore, we "allow them". That's what "allow" means....1.let something happen: to permit something to happen or somebody to do something
We are, after all, "the world's police force", are we not?
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:51 PM   #34
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US military intervention in Syria – “Not if but when”

As the violence in Syria continued to go from bad to worse in scope and intensity, US official sources had this to say Saturday, June 16, about planned US military operations in the war-torn country:
“The intervention will happen. It is not a question of ‘if’ but ‘when.’”

A Syrian Free Army rebel delegation is now in Washington to talk about their requests for heavy weapons from the Obama administration. In their meetings with US Ambassador to Syria Robert Ford and the State Department’s expert on Syria Fred Hof, the rebel leaders handed in two lists for approval: types of heavy weapons capable of challenging Bashar Assad’s armed forces and selected targets of attack to destabilize his regime.
debkafile’s Washington sources disclose that the administration is very near a decision on the types of weapons to be shipped to the Syrian rebels and when. Most of the items Washington is ready to send have been purchased by Saudi Arabia and Qatar and are ready for shipment.
The White House is also close to deciding on the format of its military operation in Syria. Some sources are defining it as “Libya lite” – that is, a reduced-scale version of the no-fly zone imposed on Libya two years ago and the direct air and other strikes which toppled the Qaddafi regime.
Following reports of approaching US military intervention in Syria and a Russian marine contingent heading for Tartus port, the UN observer mission in Syria has suspended operations and patrols. Its commander Maj. Gen. Robert Mood said, “Violence has been intensifying over the past 10 days by both parties with losses and significant risks to our observers.”

He said the risk is approaching an unacceptable level and could prompt the 300 observers to pull out of the country.
Friday, June 15, debkafile reported:

A contingent of Russian special forces is on its way to Syria to guard the Russian navy’s deep-water port at the Syria’s Mediterranean coastal town of Tartus, Pentagon officials informed US NBC TV Friday, June 15. They are coming by ship. According to debkafile’s sources, the contingent is made up of naval marines and is due to land in Syria in the coming hours.

In a separate and earlier announcement, US Defense Department sources in Washington reported that the US military had completed its own planning for a variety of US operations against Syria, or for assisting neighboring countries in the event action was ordered – a reference, according to our sources, to Turkey, Jordan and Israel.
The Syrian civil war is now moving into a new phase of major power military intervention, say debkafile’s military sources. Moscow, by sending troops to Syria without UN Security Council approval, has set a precedent for the United States, the European Union and Arab governments to follow. They all held back from sending troops to Syria because all motions to apply force for halting the bloodshed in Syria were blocked in the UN body by Russia and China.

According to US military sources, in recent weeks, the Pentagon has finalized its assessment of what types of units would be needed and how many troops. The military planning includes a scenario for a no-fly zone as well as protecting chemical and biological sites. The U.S. Navy is maintaining a presence of three surface combatants and a submarine in the eastern Mediterranean to conduct electronic surveillance and reconnaissance on the Syrian regime, a senior Pentagon official said.


http://debka.com/article/22088/US-mi...ut-when”

One Russian vessel was turned back today, FYI...by the Brits.

US & Russia Deploy in Syria – Double Prey for Al-Qaeda



<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iX08P1dZtqg?version=3&feature=player_embedded"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iX08P1dZtqg?version=3&feature=player_embedded" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

Russia, China, Iran plan to stage in Syria “biggest Mid East maneuver”


Middle East military tensions around Syria shot up again Monday, June 18, with the news reported by the semi-official Iranian news agency Fars that a joint Russian-Chinese-Iranian exercise is to take place in Syria.

It was described as “the biggest of its kind ever staged in the Middle East” with 90,000 personnel, 400 air planes and 900 tanks taking part.
As part of its preparations, Beijing is reported to have asked Egyptian authorities to permit the passage through the Suez Canal in late June of 12 naval ships heading for the Syrian port of Tartus, where Moscow maintains a naval and marine base. debkafile reported earlier this week that Russian naval vessels with marines on board were heading for Tartus. The Iranian media did not itemize their contribution to the joint exercise.
debkafile stresses that this would be the first time that substantial Russian and Chinese military strength has ever been deployed in Syria or anywhere else in the Middle East. It means that the two powers are prepared to parade their unabashed partnership with the Iranian and Syrian armies for the shared purpose of obstructing US-European-Arab military intervention in Syria. A large-scale Russian and Chinese military presence in the embattled country would expect to deter the United States from leading a military operation against Bashar Assad and his regime.
No date was attached to the report but the exercise may possibly take place before the end of the month

The large-scale maneuver was announced in Tehran on the first day of the nuclear crisis talks in Moscow between Iran and the six world powers, their third attempt to resolve the crisis by diplomacy. However, Russian and Iranian sources close to the talks were pessimistic about progress. An Iranian delegation member complained the atmosphere was harsh and unconstructive. A Russian source saw no way of bridging US-led Western differences with Tehran when the parties reconvene Monday.

debkafile also notes that the big joint Russian-Chinese-Iranian exercise “at sea, air and land on Syrian soil,” ws released for publication shortly before US President Barack Obama was due to meet Russian President Vladimir Putin at the G-20 summit in Mexico.


http://debka.com/article/22094/Russi...neuver”-

Hope this is all bluff and bluster.

Guess I will repeat my stance.

WE SHOULD STAY THE FUQ OUT OF SYRIA.

Last edited by Baron Samedi; 06-19-2012 at 01:00 PM..
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:16 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
1. That is not what I said...one again you're pulling the 'ol Steve-O mechanism.
Indeed, then perhaps you could explain exactly what you meant by this statement?
To answer your oblique question, the answer is "No, I wouldn't give them anything."

Several reasons. I would want the aid to come by way of private donation rather than an official state function, drawn from taxpayers.

Also, given that the choice is fundamentally between aiding al Qaeda Muslim fundamentalists in the rebel movement, or aiding a dictator in the form of the Assad regime.....

I think I would just sit this one out, entirely and let the chips fall where they may.
How does that statement not say that providing aid to Jordan or Turkey to help them deal with refugees in their country not be a "choice is fundamentally between aiding al Qaeda Muslim fundamentalists in the rebel movement, or aiding a dictator in the form of the Assad regime....."?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
Regardless, since Turkey is the base of operations for the rebels, then it is, in fact, aiding the rebels.

Even if it is just food and shelter.
So your position is that any civilian who flees Syria to avoid the conflict is a "rebel"?

That the forces fighting against the Assad government are fully vested in protecting and leading the people who have fled the country?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
2. The CNN report states that there are plans for American troops going into Syria.
You can try to deny it all you want....but pointing to everything ELSE it says is entirely a weak and irrelevant attempt at misdirection.
If the report said we were sending Ben & Jerry's ice cream....do I have to object to sending ice cream just to object to sending American troops?
Of course not.
I don't give a flying fvck about ice cream or blankets.
Sending troops I care about.
Let's revisit exactly what the CNN report said.
The U.S. military has completed its own planning for how American troops would conduct a variety of operations against Syria, or to assist neighboring countries in the event action was ordered, officials tell CNN.
You do realize that the word "against" and "in" are not synonymous?

For example, should some of these plans involve a blockade in the Mediterranean, then that would not involve an "invasion" nor troops "in" Syria.

Or should the plans involve the use of signal intelligence, spy satellites, etc. and the forwarding of this information to the rebels, this too would not involve any forces "in" Syria.

Of course, there are countless things that could be done to "assist neighboring countries" that would not involve troops "in" Syria.

Do you honestly fail to grasp this?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
Can we at least acknowledge that BOTH reports include sending American troops, and discuss that?
What you are clearly failing to grasp, is that the RT report listed only one possible mission.
the US military could aid in ousting the leader with America’s own troops.
You are in full umbrage that this is what the US will do.

The CNN report listed a host of other missions outside of this one singular option.

You seem to completely deny that these other missions were part of the plans developed by the Pentagon.

I have no idea what are the full gamut of missions planned for.

I suspect they did include a scenario for the US to intervene, simply on the basis of due diligence.

I have stated repeatedly that it is fully appropriate for the military to have contingency plans on hand for a plethora of possible missions. This is because it is impossible to predict with any certainty just when it may be necessary to conduct any possible, and some impossible missions. You better have your excrement together and have thought about this ahead of time so you're not making up shit on the fly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
You are quite clearly in favor, I am not.
"Yeah, but there's lots of other stuff we may do, also, or instead of" doesn't make sending troops any less of a bad idea.
What is your major malfunction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
For the record, at this time, I don't see a compelling argument for intervening inside of Syria. That doesn't mean I can't envision scenarios where that would be the bad choice and not intervening would be the worse choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
Now as I said, I don't think that the situation in Syria presently warrants us getting involved, however there are countless things the US military could do in Syria that doesn't include overthrowing the Assad regime.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
3. Right, the operating base of the Free Syrian Army.

Pretty sure if someone were supplying Mexicans with American ID's and ultralights, most here would consider that "aiding illegal immigration in the US."
I don't understand what this statement is in reference to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
4. My position, repeated here several times now, is that I object to any plan to send Americans into Syria.
Your misrepresentation of my position demands that I continually repeat it.

5.The simple fact of the matter is that those are not the only possible actions that can be taken in the region.

Which makes sending American troops into Syria a good idea in what way? I am just not following your logic, here, and I doubt anyone else is, either.
OK, seriously?

You don't understand there is a difference between sending troops into "the region" and "into Syria"?

I'm simply saying that what you claim the Pentagon's plans are is not accurate. They developed a host of options and I would wager the vast majority of them do not involve sending any troops "into Syria".

I have repeatedly stated that as I presently understand the situation, I do not reach a conclusion where the cost/benefit analysis says that involvement, of any kind is the bad choice and not getting involved is the worse choice.

I recognize that the situation is sufficiently fluid that the result of that analysis could change in a very small window of time. As such, I find it not only acceptable, but completely proper that the Pentagon has updated its plans to address any of the plethora of missions it could be called upon to execute should the situation change to the point where involvement became the bad choice and not getting involved the worse choice.

For example, the chemical weapons issue was raised in the CNN report.

If the situation deteriorates further in Syria, then is it possible that the security of these CW's be compromised?

Yes.

Would it be a good thing if the control of these CW's were to be lost?

No.

Would it be a really bad thing if these CW's were to fall into the control of various terrorist groups? Hezbollah? Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula?

Most definitely.

Would that change the dynamic so the selection of doing nothing becomes the worse choice and the selection of trying to secure or destroy them become the bad choice?

Maybe yes, maybe no.

However I am absolutely certain that one cannot make an informed decision on that question without having a fully developed plan on how to launch such a mission.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
6. We are actively engaged in this conflict. We could make efforts to stop arms shipments to the rebels. We do not. Therefore, we "allow them". That's what "allow" means....1.let something happen: to permit something to happen or somebody to do something
We are, after all, "the world's police force", are we not?
I see.

So let me get this straight.

Sending troops into "the region", is actually "into Syria", is Bad Mkay?

But at the same time, we should be putting troops into Saudi Arabia and Jordan to stop the Saudis from putting stuff on a truck and driving nit across the Saudi-Jordanian border and then across the Jordan-Syrian border.

Are you suggesting that we should have troops in Jordan to prevent such shipments?

Oh, and how are we already "actively engaged in the conflict"?
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:38 PM   #36
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A Syrian Free Army rebel delegation is now in Washington to talk about their requests for heavy weapons from the Obama administration. In their meetings with US Ambassador to Syria Robert Ford and the State Department’s expert on Syria Fred Hof, the rebel leaders handed in two lists for approval: types of heavy weapons capable of challenging Bashar Assad’s armed forces and selected targets of attack to destabilize his regime.
debkafile’s Washington sources disclose that the administration is very near a decision on the types of weapons to be shipped to the Syrian rebels and when. Most of the items Washington is ready to send have been purchased by Saudi Arabia and Qatar and are ready for shipment.
The White House is also close to deciding on the format of its military operation in Syria. Some sources are defining it as “Libya lite” – that is, a reduced-scale version of the no-fly zone imposed on Libya two years ago and the direct air and other strikes which toppled the Qaddafi regime.


That's not "actively engaged"?
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:41 PM   #37
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A Syrian Free Army rebel delegation is now in Washington to talk about their requests for heavy weapons from the Obama administration. In their meetings with US Ambassador to Syria Robert Ford and the State Department’s expert on Syria Fred Hof, the rebel leaders handed in two lists for approval: types of heavy weapons capable of challenging Bashar Assad’s armed forces and selected targets of attack to destabilize his regime.
debkafile’s Washington sources disclose that the administration is very near a decision on the types of weapons to be shipped to the Syrian rebels and when. Most of the items Washington is ready to send have been purchased by Saudi Arabia and Qatar and are ready for shipment.
The White House is also close to deciding on the format of its military operation in Syria. Some sources are defining it as “Libya lite” – that is, a reduced-scale version of the no-fly zone imposed on Libya two years ago and the direct air and other strikes which toppled the Qaddafi regime.


That's not "actively engaged"?
That's your "evidence"?

Let's revisit what you've said on this particular part of the the topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
For the record, it may be of interest to people here, one way or another, that arms are being shipped into the Syrian rebels from Saudi Arabia and Qatar, and the US is allowing them in.
"arms are being shipped" Present tense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
6. We are actively engaged in this conflict. We could make efforts to stop arms shipments to the rebels. We do not. Therefore, we "allow them". That's what "allow" means....1.let something happen: to permit something to happen or somebody to do something
We are, after all, "the world's police force", are we not?
"stop arms shipments" Again present tense.

Now what have you posted (without a link BTW)?
the administration is very near a decision on the types of weapons to be shipped
"to be shipped" future tense.

So how exactly is a claim that the administration is "very near a decision" mean that shipments have already happened, and more importantly that this demonstrates that we are "actively engaged"?

Also, how do you know what decision they will make? It is logically possible, that the decision will be no.

Now I freely accept that it is most certainly possible that Saudi Arabia has decided to aid the rebels and has sent aid to them. They share a border with Jordan and could easily ship supplies from Saudi to Syria, via Jordan.

However, for the US to stop this, we would have to take action in Saudi or Jordan to interdict these shipments.

Doing that would entail sending forces into the "region", which I thought you were opposed to.

So what exactly do you want the US to do, or not do, regarding aid to the rebels?
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:24 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
That's your "evidence"?

Let's revisit what you've said on this particular part of the the topic.



"arms are being shipped" Present tense.



"stop arms shipments" Again present tense.

Now what have you posted (without a link BTW)?
the administration is very near a decision on the types of weapons to be shipped
"to be shipped" future tense.

So how exactly is a claim that the administration is "very near a decision" mean that shipments have already happened, and more importantly that this demonstrates that we are "actively engaged"?

Also, how do you know what decision they will make? It is logically possible, that the decision will be no.

Now I freely accept that it is most certainly possible that Saudi Arabia has decided to aid the rebels and has sent aid to them. They share a border with Jordan and could easily ship supplies from Saudi to Syria, via Jordan.

However, for the US to stop this, we would have to take action in Saudi or Jordan to interdict these shipments.

Doing that would entail sending forces into the "region", which I thought you were opposed to.

So what exactly do you want the US to do, or not do, regarding aid to the rebels?
I would have more success trying to convince my cat to NOT hunt birds than you will have trying to reason with the OP. Cats will hunt, and fools will believe whatever crap they read on disreputable internet sites as gospel as long as it fits their politics and disbelieve reliable news sources on principle. Reasoning with either is futile, but good try.
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:44 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
That's your "evidence"?

Let's revisit what you've said on this particular part of the the topic.



"arms are being shipped" Present tense.



"stop arms shipments" Again present tense.

Now what have you posted (without a link BTW)?
the administration is very near a decision on the types of weapons to be shipped
"to be shipped" future tense.

So how exactly is a claim that the administration is "very near a decision" mean that shipments have already happened, and more importantly that this demonstrates that we are "actively engaged"?

Also, how do you know what decision they will make? It is logically possible, that the decision will be no.

Now I freely accept that it is most certainly possible that Saudi Arabia has decided to aid the rebels and has sent aid to them. They share a border with Jordan and could easily ship supplies from Saudi to Syria, via Jordan.

However, for the US to stop this, we would have to take action in Saudi or Jordan to interdict these shipments.

Doing that would entail sending forces into the "region", which I thought you were opposed to.

So what exactly do you want the US to do, or not do, regarding aid to the rebels?
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...pposition.html

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...tion?page=full

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/internat...udi-Arabia.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...ian-opposition

http://middleeast.about.com/od/syria...yrian-Army.htm

http://digitaljournal.com/article/321343

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...r-7845026.html

http://larouchepac.com/node/22062



Clearly, neither one of you have any idea what is going on in Syria.

This is old news, and I mistakenly assumed that people knew.

I would suggest a little more research if you want to debate things....look things up to verify or discredit for a change.

What the above report outlines is a more direct US involvement, rather than the passive approach we have had to date.

As for me, I couldn't care less about this, other than...for the 100th time, I don't want the US to be in Syria in any form, not troops, not planes, not drones.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:22 AM   #40
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Even the Boston Global Socialism has picked up on it..

CIA aids weapons flow to Syria rebels


WASHINGTON — A small number of CIA officers are operating secretly in southern Turkey, helping allies decide which Syrian opposition fighters across the border will receive arms to fight the Syrian government, US officials and Arab intelligence officers said.

The weapons, including automatic rifles, rocket-propelled grenades, ammunition, and some antitank weapons, are being funneled mostly across the Turkish border by way of a shadowy network of intermediaries including Syria’s Muslim Brotherhood and paid for by Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar, the officials said.

The CIA officers have been in southern Turkey for several weeks, in part to help keep weapons out of the hands of fighters allied with Al Qaeda or other terrorist groups, one senior US official said. The Obama administration has said it is not providing arms to the rebels, but it has also acknowledged that Syria’s neighbors would do so.

The clandestine intelligence-gathering effort is the most detailed known instance of the limited US support for the military campaign against the Syrian government. It is also part of Washington’s attempt to increase pressure on President Bashar Assad of Syria, who has escalated his government’s deadly crackdown on civilians and the militias battling his rule.

With Russia blocking more aggressive steps against the Assad government, the United States and its allies have instead turned to diplomacy and aiding allied efforts to arm the rebels seeking to force Assad from power.

By helping to select among rebel groups, US intelligence operatives in Turkey hope to learn more about a growing, changing opposition network inside of Syria and to establish new ties.

“CIA officers are there and they are trying to make new sources and recruit people,’’ said one Arab intelligence official who is briefed regularly by US counterparts.

US officials and retired CIA personnel said the administration was weighing additional assistance to rebels, such as providing satellite imagery and other detailed intelligence on Syrian troop locations and movements. The administration is also considering whether to help the opposition set up a rudimentary intelligence service. But no decisions have been made on those measures or even more aggressive steps, like sending CIA officers into Syria itself, they said.

The struggle inside Syria has the potential to intensify significantly in coming months as powerful new weapons are flowing to both the Syrian government and opposition fighters. President Obama and his top aides are seeking to pressure Russia to curb arms shipments like attack helicopters to Syria, its main ally in the Middle East.

‘‘We'd like to see arms sales to the Assad regime come to an end, because we believe they've demonstrated that they will only use their military against their own civilian population,’’ Benjamin J. Rhodes, deputy national security adviser for strategic communications, said after Obama and his Russian counterpart, Vladimir V. Putin, met in Mexico on Monday.

Spokesmen for the White House, State Department, and CIA would not comment on any intelligence operations supporting the Syrian rebels, some details of which were reported last week by The Wall Street Journal.

Until now, the public face of the administration’s Syria policy has largely been diplomacy and humanitarian aid.

The State Department said Wednesday that Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton will meet with her Russian counterpart, Sergey V. Lavrov, on the sidelines of a meeting of Asia-Pacific foreign ministers in St. Petersburg next Thursday. The private talks will probably focus, at least in part, on the crisis in Syria.



http://www.boston.com/news/world/mid..._syria_rebels/

I have plenty of tinfoil for everyone!

Seems like folks here need it.

EDIT: For the record...this is old news......that is .....if you don't rely exclusively on American "In Bed-Ed media"...

This report done April 15th

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Q9U3Tf1ejLY?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Last edited by Baron Samedi; 06-21-2012 at 09:37 AM..
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:40 AM   #41
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I'm pretty certain that most Americans disapprove of the US going to war anywhere after this shit in Iraq and Afghanistan. But, we have to keep current with plans in case the Russians have stepped things up, like inviting the Chinese navy to this dance.

You DO realize this. Right?
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:45 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Pyxis View Post
I'm pretty certain that most Americans disapprove of the US going to war anywhere after this shit in Iraq and Afghanistan. But, we have to keep current with plans in case the Russians have stepped things up, like inviting the Chinese navy to this dance.

You DO realize this. Right?
Posted via Mobile Device
Why bother? With Obama as president, the world loves us again (well, that was the expected outcome when we elected him, or so I read/heard repeatedly) and so we have no need of contingency plans, troops, ships, planes, bombs, or any other part of the military industrial complex. Peace in our time, baby! Peace. In. Our. Time.

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Old 06-21-2012, 11:00 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyxis View Post
I'm pretty certain that most Americans disapprove of the US going to war anywhere after this shit in Iraq and Afghanistan. But, we have to keep current with plans in case the Russians have stepped things up, like inviting the Chinese navy to this dance.

You DO realize this. Right?
Posted via Mobile Device
Let me get this straight.....

You are saying that if the Russians/Chinese go into Syria, in whatever form, to back up Assad and crush the rebellion...

That we would then be obligated to go there and fight them?

You're insane.

Let Assad win.

Who cares?

Do we really want to get into a proxy war with China and Russia?

That would be a war we cannot win, you realize.

All China would have to do is stop lending us the 1.5 Billion dollars a day, and the "American Regime" would collapse due to lack of money to meet it;s budget.

If that didn't work, they could stop lending us money AND call in the debts we already owe them.

They wouldn't even have to fire a shot.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:13 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
Let me get this straight.....

You are saying that if the Russians/Chinese go into Syria, in whatever form, to back up Assad and crush the rebellion...

That we would then be obligated to go there and fight them?

You're insane.

Let Assad win.

Who cares?

Do we really want to get into a proxy war with China and Russia?

That would be a war we cannot win, you realize.

All China would have to do is stop lending us the 1.5 Billion dollars a day, and the "American Regime" would collapse due to lack of money to meet it;s budget.

If that didn't work, they could stop lending us money AND call in the debts we already owe them.

They wouldn't even have to fire a shot.
Except at their own people, when their export based economy collapses and their people begin to rebel against the government.
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:19 AM   #45
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Except at their own people, when their export based economy collapses and their people begin to rebel against the government.
They'll have an extra $500 Billion dollars a year of their own money.

They'll be able to afford their own goods and be just fine...ESPECIALLY if they unpeg their currency.

Instant Chinese Middle Class consumer...a billion of them.

This whole notion that "an export economy will collapse if the exports stop" is a fallacy.

Within a year the economy would simply restructure to a consumer economy.

That is probably the easiest economic transition an economy can make.

It is OUR economy that would collapse as the government-corporate marriage falls apart with the lack of money.

Greece is nothing compared to what would happen here.

Imagine having to cut our government budget by 600 Billion or so in a single year...without warning or planning.

EDIT: Besides....China has never been averse to shooting it's own people.

I wouldn't even consider that as a legitimate safeguard against them cutting us off from the Chinese money tit.

Last edited by Baron Samedi; 06-21-2012 at 11:24 AM..
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
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