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Old 01-04-2008, 12:32 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by AllWorldTE on 01-04-2008 at 12:15 PM
The "Hard CB Roll" Coverage is Cover 3 "Cloud" where the CB and Safety exchange responsibilities. The CB now has the flat and the R now has the deep 1/3. They also exchanged run force responsibilities. Apparently the #2 changed his route based on a pre-snap "Hard Corner alignment." This route change gives #2 a chance to beat the R (rover/SS) deep. Cover 3 Covers are soft Corners, they play off and cover the deep zone. Hard corners play tight and cover the flat but becareful of those disguises though.
So then many of the times that someone is complaining about Asante or Ellis playing 'too far off' that might actually be because they are either playing a 3-Deep shell or disguising as a 3-Deep shell?

It'd explain why certain DBs get a bad wrap when they shouldn't (ala Pees defending Hobbs today on Reiss' blog).
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:35 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by AllWorldTE on 01-04-2008 at 12:27 PM
The "Overload Under Coverage" has R covering down on #2 and changed OLB's (S) drop to take away the comeback and the In Cut. The QB should look to the option route. In the first three examples, the MOF is closed so the option route breaks to the inside rather than continuing down the MOF. This is still Cover 3.


The "Overload Over" coverage they show here is not Cover 3. You can only see half the formation but this looks like a roll from a 2 shell. The FS rolls to take away (rob) the In Route while S doubles the Option Route with the Mike. The MOF read here is Open. If #1 sees this he breaks to the post over the FS's roll and the Option Route runs his route right down the MOF.

This could have turned into a Cover 3 Zone if the unseen FS in the 2 Shell rolled back to the MOF post-snap. They do not show this though.
So in a 'robber' set, the FS or SS drops into the zone where those shallow crossing routes take place, but opens up the deep portion of the field behind him?

It seems that teams would want to disguise their 'robber' until the last moment otherwise they'd get burned deep by an option route?

Still learning here, but you're starting to make sense to me.
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:42 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brownfan80 on 01-04-2008 at 12:32 PM
So then many of the times that someone is complaining about Asante or Ellis playing 'too far off' that might actually be because they are either playing a 3-Deep shell or disguising as a 3-Deep shell?

It'd explain why certain DBs get a bad wrap when they shouldn't (ala Pees defending Hobbs today on Reiss' blog).
A 2 deep shell is a alignment that lends itself to disguises. Cover 3 (and some forms of Cover 4) call for the CBs to play 1/3 deep zones (the deep field is split into thirds).

I didn't see Pees statements about Hobbs but if the Pats are in Cover 3, Hobbs will usually be aligned about 7 yards deep off the #1 receiver. He will drop on the snap. If the #1 receiver runs a route in the flat (Hitch, quick out, slant) Hobbs can't defend it, the falt defender has to defend it. On TV, people see Hobbs giving a huge cusion and the pass being completed underneath him but in those defenses it's not his fault. In other defenses it might be. Many times it's the coaches fault for calling the wrong defense. Football is a chess match.
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:45 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brownfan80 on 01-04-2008 at 12:35 PM
So in a 'robber' set, the FS or SS drops into the zone where those shallow crossing routes take place, but opens up the deep portion of the field behind him?
That's what happened in your diagram but they don't have to leave the MOF open. From a 2 deep shell, one Safety could roll to the MOF closing it while the other drops low to Rob certain routes.

Code:

2 Deep Shell

                               S                            S


CB                                                                               CB

Roll to Cover 3 Robber
                                              S
CB                                                                                CB


                                              S
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Old 01-04-2008, 01:11 PM   #80
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I go to a meeting, and this thread becomes really sweet! I'll go back and comment some after I get back from lunch, but AWTE pretty much hit it on the spot from what I've seen.
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Old 01-04-2008, 01:18 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by southcarolina* on 01-04-2008 at 09:05 AM
Patriots offense, simplified:
LMFAO!!!!

This thread is great! It's nice being schooled on this!

If I may ask a question or 2, please? What is Neutral Zone Infraction and Encroachment and how do they differ than your basic Offsides?
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Old 01-04-2008, 01:22 PM   #82
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Hey Dave -

I'm a native New Englander currently marooned in Cleveland. The other night when I hopped in my car for the commute home I caught the very tail end of a radio interview on the local sports station with someone who was obviously a former U of M player (I got the impression he might also be playing in the NFL). I missed who it was, but he was talking about Brady and said that he saw Brady (in a recent game, but I'm not sure if they were talking about the Giants game or not) grab his face mask at some point proir to the snap and he said that this was an old Michigan signal for some kind of switch/modification to the play. The guy joked that he was going to have to tell Tommy next time they spoke that there were other U of M guys out there and that everyone would be on to it the next time he tried that signal. Do you know what he was talking about?

Last edited by Seuss; 01-04-2008 at 02:23 PM..
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Old 01-04-2008, 01:37 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brownfan80 on 01-04-2008 at 11:50 AM
Wow that was very illuminating. Thank you for taking the time.

So in that Carolina SB when Brady saw Graham streaking down the middle wide open in his head he was going "MOFO!! MOFO!!! MOFOOO!!!!!!!!!"?

this could help you out BF80.

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Old 01-04-2008, 01:42 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by southcarolina* on 01-04-2008 at 12:05 PM
Patriots offense, simplified:




+GFY
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Old 01-04-2008, 01:42 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jh on 01-04-2008 at 01:18 PM
LMFAO!!!!

This thread is great! It's nice being schooled on this!

If I may ask a question or 2, please? What is Neutral Zone Infraction and Encroachment and how do they differ than your basic Offsides?
Ok let me try this. Neutral zone infraction is when the D causes a false start by going in to the neutral zone. Encroachment I am a not too sure of but I looked it up and it said " A foul in which a defender makes contact with a member of the offense before the snap."

Offside is them going on to the offense side past the neutral zone????

I dunno I am sure someone can elaborate more on this
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Old 01-04-2008, 01:47 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jh on 01-04-2008 at 01:18 PM
LMFAO!!!!

This thread is great! It's nice being schooled on this!

If I may ask a question or 2, please? What is Neutral Zone Infraction and Encroachment and how do they differ than your basic Offsides?
Clearly I'm not the expert around here, but let me take a whack at this:

Offsides, defensive player jumps before the snap and is in motion into the neutral zone as the ball is snapped.

Neutral Zone infraction, defensive player jumps into and out of the neutral zone inciting a false start (iffy on this one).

Encroachment, basically the same as offsides only you make contact with an offensive player before the ball is snapped.

And don't forget Unabated to the Quarterback, which is where a player goes offsides and gets a clear path to the QB untouched (where if they let this play run ala an Offsides play the QB would get killed every time).

Someone correct me if I'm off.

Last edited by Brownfan80; 01-04-2008 at 01:52 PM..
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Old 01-04-2008, 01:48 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by TBrownslady* on 01-04-2008 at 10:42 AM
Ok let me try this. Neutral zone infraction is when the D causes a false start by going in to the neutral zone. Encroachment I am a not too sure of but I looked it up and it said " A foul in which a defender makes contact with a member of the offense before the snap."

Offside is them going on to the offense side past the neutral zone????

I dunno I am sure someone can elaborate more on this
Wow, nice try TBLady, especially for a broad . I think we all understand what offsides is by the time we are 10, lol, and the neutral zone makes sense since the Dline can move but the Oline can't. So basically by this definition, encroachment is an offsides but someone on the opposing team is contacted? Is it a bigger penalty than offsides, then?
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Old 01-04-2008, 01:50 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jh on 01-04-2008 at 01:48 PM
Wow, nice try TBLady, especially for a broad . I think we all understand what offsides is by the time we are 10, lol, and the neutral zone makes sense since the Dline can move but the Oline can't. So basically by this definition, encroachment is an offsides but someone on the opposing team is contacted? Is it a bigger penalty than offsides, then?
That what I get from it anyway? Said that encroachment gets a 5 yard penalty.
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Old 01-04-2008, 01:53 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by TBrownslady* on 01-04-2008 at 10:50 AM
That what I get from it anyway? Said that encroachment gets a 5 yard penalty.
I guess they just like to be teh specific, lol. When I first started getting into football I swear there was something new called all the time. Now I think I have heard them all, lol. But my husband thinks the same thing in baseball. The first time he saw someone run to first after a dropped 3rd strike he about sh1t himself!
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Old 01-04-2008, 01:53 PM   #90
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Oh, oops, TBL beat me to it anyway. Crap.
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