>
Patriots Planet - New England Patriots Forums and Message Boards

Home Members List Top Posters Arcade Casino Toolbar
Go Back   Patriots Planet - New England Patriots Forums and Message Boards > The Razor > The Five Ring Circus - Patriots Tailgate
Mark Forums Read rel="nofollow">Mark Forums Read
Register All Albums FAQDonate Calendar

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-17-2017, 03:54 PM   #1
HSanders
omitted out of respect to Mrs.Jastremski
 
HSanders's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: on Pats Planet
Posts: 23,928
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $595135
My Mood


HSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjacker
HSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjacker
Christian McCaffrey

Does his refusal to participate in anything piss anyone off (the latest is no workouts for teams)?
I mean Florio is all over hating the combine, etc. because film should be enough,so this guy should be his test case. If a guy chooses not to do x, y, or z as far as that stuff goes, I don't want to hear one OUNCE of whining if their draft stock falls or teams tell him he is off their boards or whatever due to it. Your choice, your consequence. I mean, we already suspect that some guys in contract years ease off to preserve themselves. Is there any doubt he'd do the same?

I think he is going overboard with the amount of things he is refusing to take part in (those affect just him, I get the mentality and see the "why" of it though I do not agree with it), but the one that actually bothers me to the core is not playing in the bowl game with his team. That tells me he is an unsuitable teammate, period. I do not care WTF his reasoning is. He'd be off my board.

Phil Savage said on NFL Live today that he was talking to a 10 year veteran player about this whole Bartleby the Scrivener act ("I prefer not to")McCaffrey has going and the player told Savage, "You can't selectively compete. You have to compete every single day when you get to the NFL". If some teams/GMs are old school like that, he may see his draft status suffer, and hence, his wallet, the one thing he is trying to protect.
__________________
"Coach [Bill] Belichick always used to say, 'I don't give a s--- about our defense giving up yards; all I care about is scoring defense, turnovers and the red zone,'" Woody said. "That's really the key to football. A lot of coaches pound their chest and say, 'I've got the No. 1 defense.'
"That number doesn't mean anything."


UP YOURS, NAPOLIAN
  HSanders is offline Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2017, 04:12 PM   #2
ParanoidPatriot
JUSTICE
 
ParanoidPatriot's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: in my shed
Posts: 9,295
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $750
My Mood


ParanoidPatriot gets a lot of it
ParanoidPatriot gets a lot of itParanoidPatriot gets a lot of itParanoidPatriot gets a lot of itParanoidPatriot gets a lot of itParanoidPatriot gets a lot of it
Over the years,there is a long line of players who take bad advise and end up paying for it. It sounds as if he is acting on advise of someone. His father should know better being a former NFL player.

There are several players in this years draft who should have stayed in school another year. They will end up being mid round picks instead of first or second picks next year.
__________________
  ParanoidPatriot is offline Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2017, 04:38 PM   #3
Hawg73
Mediocre with flashes of brilliance
 
Hawg73's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Gumdrop house on Lollipop Ln.
Posts: 20,052
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $456683
My Mood


Hawg73 makes Greek statues weep in jealousyHawg73 makes Greek statues weep in jealousyHawg73 makes Greek statues weep in jealousy
Hawg73 makes Greek statues weep in jealousyHawg73 makes Greek statues weep in jealousyHawg73 makes Greek statues weep in jealousyHawg73 makes Greek statues weep in jealousyHawg73 makes Greek statues weep in jealousyHawg73 makes Greek statues weep in jealousyHawg73 makes Greek statues weep in jealousyHawg73 makes Greek statues weep in jealousyHawg73 makes Greek statues weep in jealousyHawg73 makes Greek statues weep in jealousy
Quote:
Originally Posted by HSanders View Post
Does his refusal to participate in anything piss anyone off (the latest is no workouts for teams)?
I mean Florio is all over hating the combine, etc. because film should be enough,so this guy should be his test case. If a guy chooses not to do x, y, or z as far as that stuff goes, I don't want to hear one OUNCE of whining if their draft stock falls or teams tell him he is off their boards or whatever due to it. Your choice, your consequence. I mean, we already suspect that some guys in contract years ease off to preserve themselves. Is there any doubt he'd do the same?

I think he is going overboard with the amount of things he is refusing to take part in (those affect just him, I get the mentality and see the "why" of it though I do not agree with it), but the one that actually bothers me to the core is not playing in the bowl game with his team. That tells me he is an unsuitable teammate, period. I do not care WTF his reasoning is. He'd be off my board.

Phil Savage said on NFL Live today that he was talking to a 10 year veteran player about this whole Bartleby the Scrivener act ("I prefer not to")McCaffrey has going and the player told Savage, "You can't selectively compete. You have to compete every single day when you get to the NFL". If some teams/GMs are old school like that, he may see his draft status suffer, and hence, his wallet, the one thing he is trying to protect.
It's a really great question and it seems that it gets more relevant each season as more and more kids play the end game their way.

I have mixed feelings about it. While I tend to prefer players that were productive at high levels, particularly in major bowl/national championship games, I can see the reason why somebody would want to get to the point where they know they are 1-2 round material and then go into protect mode.

If this becomes more widespread I think invalidates the whole college football process. It's do as little as possible and advertise yourself for the next level.

As far as McCaffrey goes, I think he is likely to be a very good pro and not much imagination is needed to project what he is going to bring a team. He'd likely help anybody as an utility piece, although not in Foxboro as much as most places since we have a couple of proven guys who play a similar role.

I wonder what BB thinks of this stuff. He probably doesn't care for it one bit.

In the end, few are going to care that much how McCaffrey approached the end of his college career outside of Stanford. In fact, silently many will applaud the fact that he didn't roll the dice with his health/future while at the same time making snarky public comments about how "we would have liked to see him play the bowl game/Senior Bowl (etc.)."

Players will watch to see how McCaffrey, and the other no mas players get drafted and if it seems comparable with what was expected then next year there will be a bunch more, unless Geico sells "NFL Career Insurance".
  Hawg73 is offline Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2017, 05:27 PM   #4
Jaric
Indiana Terrorist
 
Jaric's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Dagobah grow house
Posts: 47,435
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $673087
My Mood


Jaric is a name known to allJaric is a name known to allJaric is a name known to allJaric is a name known to all
Jaric is a name known to allJaric is a name known to allJaric is a name known to allJaric is a name known to all
I personally could give two shits about the underwear olympics, so it won't bother me. Of course, I'm not an NFL coach so who knows what effect it will have. This shows a dangerous amount of free thinking and individualism so he'll probably drop two or three rounds because of "red flags" or other such nonsense.
__________________
Do, or do not. There is no try.
  Jaric is offline Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2017, 09:16 PM   #5
HSanders
omitted out of respect to Mrs.Jastremski
 
HSanders's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: on Pats Planet
Posts: 23,928
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $595135
My Mood


HSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjacker
HSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjacker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
I personally could give two shits about the underwear olympics, so it won't bother me. Of course, I'm not an NFL coach so who knows what effect it will have. This shows a dangerous amount of free thinking and individualism so he'll probably drop two or three rounds because of "red flags" or other such nonsense.
Obviously, football isn't the services, but a similar mentality is needed as far as working as one unit. A guy who doesn't want to do combine stuff is one thing, but a guy who refuses to play with his teammates in the postseason is revolting. He simply can't be counted on to be a good teammate i.m.o.
I don't have a problem with guys being individuals, but they must also make some sacrifices for the team. I guarantee you that when salaries were small, this wouldn't happen. I don't begrudge guys their market values at all. I am just sad about what it has done to the sport.
__________________
"Coach [Bill] Belichick always used to say, 'I don't give a s--- about our defense giving up yards; all I care about is scoring defense, turnovers and the red zone,'" Woody said. "That's really the key to football. A lot of coaches pound their chest and say, 'I've got the No. 1 defense.'
"That number doesn't mean anything."


UP YOURS, NAPOLIAN
  HSanders is offline Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 07:08 AM   #6
spacecrime
Registered User
 

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hanging with the Howler Monkeys
Posts: 4,086
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $404500


spacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets it
spacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets it
Quote:
Originally Posted by HSanders View Post
Obviously, football isn't the services, but a similar mentality is needed as far as working as one unit. A guy who doesn't want to do combine stuff is one thing, but a guy who refuses to play with his teammates in the postseason is revolting. He simply can't be counted on to be a good teammate i.m.o.
It's not the post season. It was a bowl game, an exhibition money-maker for the college and the NCAA. It is about not losing the thing he has aspired to all his life, a paying NFL career.

If you look at it like his goal was not to play with teammates, then your conclusion is correct. But that wasn't his goal. His goal was to ensure he got an NFL contract.

Until the NCAA stops taking everything and giving back nothing to the players, smart players will do this more and more.

The NFL is a business, not a social club.
  spacecrime is offline Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 08:04 AM   #7
Dwight Schrute
Feeling a bit greater
 
Dwight Schrute's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Scranton, PA
Posts: 26,756
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $623605
My Mood


Dwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that good
Dwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that good
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecrime View Post
It's not the post season. It was a bowl game, an exhibition money-maker for the college and the NCAA. It is about not losing the thing he has aspired to all his life, a paying NFL career.

If you look at it like his goal was not to play with teammates, then your conclusion is correct. But that wasn't his goal. His goal was to ensure he got an NFL contract.

Until the NCAA stops taking everything and giving back nothing to the players, smart players will do this more and more.

The NFL is a business, not a social club.
I agree.

Clubs look at it solely from a business end. You can't hammer players for the same.

Who was the stud Miami RB that blew all 3 ligaments in his knee on a Bowl game?

Case closed.
__________________
The noose gets tighter every day Rog!
  Dwight Schrute is offline Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 08:11 AM   #8
Jaric
Indiana Terrorist
 
Jaric's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Dagobah grow house
Posts: 47,435
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $673087
My Mood


Jaric is a name known to allJaric is a name known to allJaric is a name known to allJaric is a name known to all
Jaric is a name known to allJaric is a name known to allJaric is a name known to allJaric is a name known to all
Quote:
Originally Posted by HSanders View Post
Obviously, football isn't the services, but a similar mentality is needed as far as working as one unit. A guy who doesn't want to do combine stuff is one thing, but a guy who refuses to play with his teammates in the postseason is revolting. He simply can't be counted on to be a good teammate i.m.o.
I don't have a problem with guys being individuals, but they must also make some sacrifices for the team. I guarantee you that when salaries were small, this wouldn't happen. I don't begrudge guys their market values at all. I am just sad about what it has done to the sport.
Yeah it doesn't bother me if he opts out of a university fundraiser. Most of these guys have done quite enough already to line the pockets of their alma matter but we jump on them the moment they say "you know, it would actually be better for me to sit this one out."

Now, you wanna pay these guys and we can talk about your fundraiser. Otherwise good luck with that. I might boycott the bowl game on principle just to stick it to the most corrupt organization in sports.
__________________
Do, or do not. There is no try.
  Jaric is offline Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 10:11 AM   #9
HSanders
omitted out of respect to Mrs.Jastremski
 
HSanders's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: on Pats Planet
Posts: 23,928
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $595135
My Mood


HSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjacker
HSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjackerHSanders is a professional threadjacker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
Yeah it doesn't bother me if he opts out of a university fundraiser.
I agree the NCAA is corrupt, 100%.
Yes that game makes them money. Yes that whole deal sucks. Yes the game doesn't "mean"anything. I get intellectually why he didn't do it, or anything else.

It's still an actual team game, and he's not playing in it on purpose.

I'm sure his teammates coaches etc. all told him they were fine with it. I have heard the same thing. Do I think every one of them meant it? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe unlike him, some of them were being good teammates and supporting his decision. Maybe they support it, but have lost respect for him as a teammate. We will likely never know. And they are going their separate ways anyhow, it's not a team to which he is returning. So to an extent, I am sure he gives 0 fvcks what they think of him, and they give 0 fvcks about his teammatehood.

I want a guy with a more team first mentality when it comes to this sport. Everyone gets hurt, EVERYONE. It's not an individual sport like tennis or golf. If you won't play for your TEAMMATES (not the university, who cares about them, eff them) because you are too scared to get hurt, well, go take up tennis or golf.

It may not make "intellectual" sense to feel this way but it's the nature, the ESSENCE of the sport to me.
__________________
"Coach [Bill] Belichick always used to say, 'I don't give a s--- about our defense giving up yards; all I care about is scoring defense, turnovers and the red zone,'" Woody said. "That's really the key to football. A lot of coaches pound their chest and say, 'I've got the No. 1 defense.'
"That number doesn't mean anything."


UP YOURS, NAPOLIAN
  HSanders is offline Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 06:58 PM   #10
BillForever
Registered User
 

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Columbia
Posts: 124
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $6500


BillForever is on a distinguished roadBillForever is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by HSanders View Post
Obviously, football isn't the services, but a similar mentality is needed as far as working as one unit. A guy who doesn't want to do combine stuff is one thing, but a guy who refuses to play with his teammates in the postseason is revolting. He simply can't be counted on to be a good teammate i.m.o.
I don't have a problem with guys being individuals, but they must also make some sacrifices for the team. I guarantee you that when salaries were small, this wouldn't happen. I don't begrudge guys their market values at all. I am just sad about what it has done to the sport.
If I had been one of his Stanford teammates, I would have understood him sitting out, and encouraged him to, especially considering they were not in the playoffs.
  BillForever is offline Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 11:15 AM   #11
O.Z.O.
5x ***** champions
 
O.Z.O.'s Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rubbing a booger on the Ray Lewis statue
Posts: 18,124
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $66221
My Mood


O.Z.O. is your brother, your best friend forever.O.Z.O. is your brother, your best friend forever.O.Z.O. is your brother, your best friend forever.O.Z.O. is your brother, your best friend forever.
O.Z.O. is your brother, your best friend forever.O.Z.O. is your brother, your best friend forever.O.Z.O. is your brother, your best friend forever.O.Z.O. is your brother, your best friend forever.O.Z.O. is your brother, your best friend forever.O.Z.O. is your brother, your best friend forever.O.Z.O. is your brother, your best friend forever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillForever View Post
If I had been one of his Stanford teammates, I would have understood him sitting out, and encouraged him to, especially considering they were not in the playoffs.
That's exactly what they did. Even the coaching staff.
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


#FBaltimore: their coach, and their fans too
  O.Z.O. is offline Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2017, 06:48 PM   #12
Dwight Schrute
Feeling a bit greater
 
Dwight Schrute's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Scranton, PA
Posts: 26,756
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $623605
My Mood


Dwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that good
Dwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that goodDwight Schrute should plot to take over the world, they're that good
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawg73 View Post
It's a really great question and it seems that it gets more relevant each season as more and more kids play the end game their way.

I have mixed feelings about it. While I tend to prefer players that were productive at high levels, particularly in major bowl/national championship games, I can see the reason why somebody would want to get to the point where they know they are 1-2 round material and then go into protect mode.

If this becomes more widespread I think invalidates the whole college football process. It's do as little as possible and advertise yourself for the next level.

As far as McCaffrey goes, I think he is likely to be a very good pro and not much imagination is needed to project what he is going to bring a team. He'd likely help anybody as an utility piece, although not in Foxboro as much as most places since we have a couple of proven guys who play a similar role.

I wonder what BB thinks of this stuff. He probably doesn't care for it one bit.

In the end, few are going to care that much how McCaffrey approached the end of his college career outside of Stanford. In fact, silently many will applaud the fact that he didn't roll the dice with his health/future while at the same time making snarky public comments about how "we would have liked to see him play the bowl game/Senior Bowl (etc.)."

Players will watch to see how McCaffrey, and the other no mas players get drafted and if it seems comparable with what was expected then next year there will be a bunch more, unless Geico sells "NFL Career Insurance".
I don't know if the college process hasn't mimicked the academic entry process, where the biggest factor is the junior season and the first portion of the senior tilt and just get out of dodge productive AND healthy.
__________________
The noose gets tighter every day Rog!
  Dwight Schrute is offline Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2017, 07:35 PM   #13
spacecrime
Registered User
 

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hanging with the Howler Monkeys
Posts: 4,086
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $404500


spacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets it
spacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets itspacecrime gets it
What do teams need? They have film. He worked out at the combine. He worked out pro day. When is enough enough?

Two guys got hurt during pro day workouts, and their draft stock dropped a whole lot more than McCaffrey's will.

Teams bitch, but I don't see any of them saying, "If you get hurt during our workout, we'll pay you what you would have received at the pick you are expected to go in." No, they bring him in and if he tears an ACL it's, "Tough luck, kid. No way we draft you now."

This is not about not wanting to compete. It is about not taking a chance on playing football. Football is a business for the teams, but if a player makes a business decision, look out.

Any team that passes on a quality player because they thing he isn't a competitor hopefully will face him in their division twice a year to see if they guessed right or wrong.

I agree with the poster who says that if a player opts not to do team workout, he has no bitch coming, but I doubt a player will bitch. This is a considered decision on their part, balancing the risk of getting hurt and getting drafted multiple rounds lower than anticipated with impressing a team that might or might not draft you.

The odds against getting hurt aren't high, but if you are the one who gets hurt, odds don't mean crap.
  spacecrime is offline Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 06:55 AM   #14
PumpDee
They Hate Us Cuz They Ain't Us.
 
PumpDee's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Rhode Island (it's not really an island)
Posts: 9,739
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $71250
My Mood


PumpDee should plot to take over the world, they're that goodPumpDee should plot to take over the world, they're that goodPumpDee should plot to take over the world, they're that goodPumpDee should plot to take over the world, they're that goodPumpDee should plot to take over the world, they're that good
PumpDee should plot to take over the world, they're that goodPumpDee should plot to take over the world, they're that goodPumpDee should plot to take over the world, they're that goodPumpDee should plot to take over the world, they're that goodPumpDee should plot to take over the world, they're that goodPumpDee should plot to take over the world, they're that goodPumpDee should plot to take over the world, they're that goodPumpDee should plot to take over the world, they're that goodPumpDee should plot to take over the world, they're that good
He's doing his best to drop into the Patriots' lap.
  PumpDee is offline Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 10:21 AM   #15
subroc
Interested Observer
 
subroc's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 807
Posting Frequency


Casino cash: $235350


subroc is the shiznitsubroc is the shiznitsubroc is the shiznitsubroc is the shiznitsubroc is the shiznitsubroc is the shiznitsubroc is the shiznitsubroc is the shiznitsubroc is the shiznit
Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpDee View Post
He's doing his best to drop into the Patriots' lap.
If he is all about the money, I am not sure he wants to end up a Patriot. Not like they are going to pay a running back.
__________________
Bill Parcells: "You are what your record says you are!"

  subroc is offline Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Template-Modifications by TMS
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Patriots Planet is not affiliated with the NFL or with the New England Patriots. The views and opinions on this forum do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the owners and/or operators of this forum and website.